VOTE, Dammit!

[RedWingFan]

I dont know when NC votes, but my vote will go to Ron Paul, most likely.... It won't be Hillary, Obama, McCaine, or Romney.

So you think we should pull out of Iraq immediately and let chaos commence? That's Rupaul.

Hell, if I thought Ron Paul had a chance I'd vote for him too.

Well scarygirl, if this post isn't an endorsement for Mitt Romney for ya....

[scarygirl]

I dont know when NC votes, but my vote will go to Ron Paul, most likely.... It won't be Hillary, Obama, McCaine, or Romney.

So you think we should pull out of Iraq immediately and let chaos commence? That's Rupaul.

Hell, if I thought Ron Paul had a chance I'd vote for him too.

Well scarygirl, if this post isn't an endorsement for Mitt Romney for ya....

Scary ain't it?

[Deb]

:D I thought this was a Vote for SP thread! Sorry, don't want to talk about politics in a music board .

LOL! No doubt. Where's bluejeangirl when ya need her? Mwaahaahaa...........Perry in 08!

I should revert back to this avatar. I'm done picking on Journey (for the time being).

You're damn right. Much better.

[ohsherrie]

I dont know when NC votes, but my vote will go to Ron Paul, most likely.... It won't be Hillary, Obama, McCaine, or Romney.

So you think we should pull out of Iraq immediately and let chaos commence? That's Rupaul.

Hell, if I thought Ron Paul had a chance I'd vote for him too.

Well scarygirl, if this post isn't an endorsement for Mitt Romney for ya....

OMFG! I take it back.

[Rip Rokken]

He's also against the NATIONAL ID CARD. Another reason why I'm considering him.

I could care less about overseas issues right now, except that we need to quit sending money to countries that hate us. We have plenty enough going on here to be spending our tax money on. Foreign policy issues are important, of course, but hell -- we have major, major issues here that will take us down if we don't tackle them. Illegal immigration, Social Security, etc.

[scarygirl]

I dont know when NC votes, but my vote will go to Ron Paul, most likely.... It won't be Hillary, Obama, McCaine, or Romney.

So you think we should pull out of Iraq immediately and let chaos commence? That's Rupaul.

Hell, if I thought Ron Paul had a chance I'd vote for him too.

Well scarygirl, if this post isn't an endorsement for Mitt Romney for ya....

OMFG! I take it back.

Thank you. Best present I ever had.

[Rip Rokken]

We are going to be in for a world of hurt for at least the next 4 years, no matter which of these clowns makes it in. This is the worst presidential election I can remember in my lifetime.

[scarygirl]

He's also against the NATIONAL ID CARD. Another reason why I'm considering him.

I could care less about overseas issues right now, except that we need to quit sending money to countries that hate us. We have plenty enough going on here to be spending our tax money on. Foreign policy issues are important, of course, but hell -- we have major, major issues here that will take us down if we don't tackle them. Illegal immigration, Social Security, etc.

National ID card will make your DL invalid. Without this intrusive piece of trash you won't be able to board a plane to fly in your own country much less out.

[Rip Rokken]

National ID card will make your DL invalid. Without this intrusive piece of trash you won't be able to board a plane to fly in your own country much less out.

I'm kinda out of the loop on that... haven't noticed any progress being made or seen any hard news about it. The only times I hear of it are from fear mongers and Bible Prophecy magazines, and both usually seem to skew the facts to amp up the scare...

[bluejeangirl76]

I'm kinda out of the loop on that... haven't noticed any progress being made or seen any hard news about it. The only times I hear of it are from fear mongers and Bible Prophecy magazines, and both usually seem to skew the facts to amp up the scare...

Exactly, Rip.

[scarygirl]

National ID card will make your DL invalid. Without this intrusive piece of trash you won't be able to board a plane to fly in your own country much less out.

I'm kinda out of the loop on that... haven't noticed any progress being made or seen any hard news about it. The only times I hear of it are from fear mongers and Bible Prophecy magazines, and both usually seem to skew the facts to amp up the scare...

My state approved it. Goes into effect this year. It's real. Nothing to do with fear mongering. If anyone is up to Fear mongering it's Miss. National Health Insurance.

[ohsherrie]

National ID card will make your DL invalid. Without this intrusive piece of trash you won't be able to board a plane to fly in your own country much less out.

I'm kinda out of the loop on that... haven't noticed any progress being made or seen any hard news about it. The only times I hear of it are from fear mongers and Bible Prophecy magazines, and both usually seem to skew the facts to amp up the scare...

My state approved it. Goes into effect this year. It's real. Nothing to do with fear mongering. If anyone is up to Fear mongering it's Miss. National Health Insurance.

Oh yeah, whether you can fly in and out of the country is much more important than whether you have to watch your child die because you can't afford medical treatment. It's so comforting to know so many of our citizens have their priorities in order.

[bluejeangirl76]

National ID card will make your DL invalid. Without this intrusive piece of trash you won't be able to board a plane to fly in your own country much less out.

I'm kinda out of the loop on that... haven't noticed any progress being made or seen any hard news about it. The only times I hear of it are from fear mongers and Bible Prophecy magazines, and both usually seem to skew the facts to amp up the scare...

My state approved it. Goes into effect this year. It's real. Nothing to do with fear mongering. If anyone is up to Fear mongering it's Miss. National Health Insurance.

Oh yeah, whether you can fly in and out of the country is much more important than whether you have to watch your child die because you can't afford medical treatment. It's so comforting to know so many of our citizens have their priorities in order.

That's why no one should have children sherrie.
They might get sick or become too expensive, thus making us all irresponsible people.

[scarygirl]

National ID card will make your DL invalid. Without this intrusive piece of trash you won't be able to board a plane to fly in your own country much less out.

I'm kinda out of the loop on that... haven't noticed any progress being made or seen any hard news about it. The only times I hear of it are from fear mongers and Bible Prophecy magazines, and both usually seem to skew the facts to amp up the scare...

My state approved it. Goes into effect this year. It's real. Nothing to do with fear mongering. If anyone is up to Fear mongering it's Miss. National Health Insurance.

Oh yeah, whether you can fly in and out of the country is much more important than whether you have to watch your child die because you can't afford medical treatment. It's so comforting to know so many of our citizens have their priorities in order.

What about this? What if the best treatment was outside the country and your GOVERNMENT said no, YOU CAN'T GO. No sorry, I don't want the government telling me where I can and cannot go and I don;t want the government telling me how to spend my paycheck. If someone refuses to afford health insurance that's not my problem and I will not pay for it.

[scarygirl]

National ID card will make your DL invalid. Without this intrusive piece of trash you won't be able to board a plane to fly in your own country much less out.

I'm kinda out of the loop on that... haven't noticed any progress being made or seen any hard news about it. The only times I hear of it are from fear mongers and Bible Prophecy magazines, and both usually seem to skew the facts to amp up the scare...

My state approved it. Goes into effect this year. It's real. Nothing to do with fear mongering. If anyone is up to Fear mongering it's Miss. National Health Insurance.

Oh yeah, whether you can fly in and out of the country is much more important than whether you have to watch your child die because you can't afford medical treatment. It's so comforting to know so many of our citizens have their priorities in order.

That's why no one should have children sherrie.
They might get sick or become too expensive, thus making us all irresponsible people.

You shouldn't have children you can't afford. That's not heartless that's smart. It is irresponsible to have kids, particularly when people are on minimum wage which invariably those are the ones who end up applying for aid.

[scarygirl]

REAL ID- AKA NATIONAL ID

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/12/ramasastry.ids/index.html

This article is from 05, but they are coming into effect this year. Even if a state opts out , that state's citizens will be treated like a second class citizin. You won't be allowed to travel between states, much less outside the country.

An article from today. CNET.com

http://www.news.com/Federal-buildings-become-Real-ID-zones/2009-1028_3-6229133.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&subj=news

[StoneCold]

You shouldn't have children you can't afford. That's not heartless that's smart. It is irresponsible to have kids, particularly when people are on minimum wage which invariably those are the ones who end up applying for aid.

I agree that the population is out of control in the US and rest of the world but young adults (and teens) in the US don't know exactly how much children cost anyway. Its irresponsible but that's how a lot of us got here.

Lots of poor folks have raised great kids so finances isn't the main factor on whether you'll be a good parent.

Giving up a few luxuries can buy a lot of diapers and baby food.

[Rip Rokken]

You shouldn't have children you can't afford. That's not heartless that's smart. It is irresponsible to have kids, particularly when people are on minimum wage which invariably those are the ones who end up applying for aid.

I completely agree with that, and for too long a time, people who habitually worked the system knew they could get a "raise" by having another kid. Disgraceful. I never really kept up with welfare reform so I don't know if that situation ever improved or not.

[scarygirl]

You shouldn't have children you can't afford. That's not heartless that's smart. It is irresponsible to have kids, particularly when people are on minimum wage which invariably those are the ones who end up applying for aid.

I agree that the population is out of control in the US and rest of the world but young adults (and teens) in the US don't know exactly how much children cost anyway. Its irresponsible but that's how a lot of us got here.

Lots of poor folks have raised great kids so finances isn't the main factor on whether you'll be a good parent.

Giving up a few luxuries can buy a lot of diapers and baby food.

Not saying poor or people who don;t have a lot of money shouldn't have children, but if you have to apply for government aid to afford them it's not a good idea.

I grew up with no money. I lived in a trailor park and was driven to school in clunky car that made me smell of exhaust. It was humiliating. My father refused to accept responsibility for anything. Still doesn't. He never worked a nine to five job for longer than a few months. He always invariably lost them, and it was never his fault. Goes back to that responsibility thing I guess.

[StoneCold]

You shouldn't have children you can't afford. That's not heartless that's smart. It is irresponsible to have kids, particularly when people are on minimum wage which invariably those are the ones who end up applying for aid.

I agree that the population is out of control in the US and rest of the world but young adults (and teens) in the US don't know exactly how much children cost anyway. Its irresponsible but that's how a lot of us got here.

Lots of poor folks have raised great kids so finances isn't the main factor on whether you'll be a good parent.

Giving up a few luxuries can buy a lot of diapers and baby food.

Not saying poor or people who don;t have a lot of money shouldn't have children, but if you have to apply for government aid to afford them it's not a good idea.

Agree, if you need the government to feed your kids, not a good situation.

I grew up with no money. I lived in a trailor park and was driven to school in clunky car that made me smell of exhaust. It was humiliating. My father refused to accept responsibility for anything. Still doesn't. He never worked a nine to five job for longer than a few months. He always invariably lost them, and it was never his fault. Goes back to that responsibility thing I guess.

Sorry to hear about that. I'm not a dad (yet ) but I'd work any job to make sure my kids had food and clothing.

[4ever4Steve]

Hillary!
There is not another candidate more qualified to be president, then she is!

Want the "war" to end? Want to see our education system improve 100%? Want to know you won't have to have a lien put on your home if you need serious medical treatment?
Want the 'balanced' federal budget to return to it's year " 2000" glory and watch the economy recover to reflect this, and make our lives much more secure again?

Well, look no further:

HILLARY CLINTON for PRESIDENT 2008~!!


It's time.


4ever4Steve
Anne.

[scarygirl]

You shouldn't have children you can't afford. That's not heartless that's smart. It is irresponsible to have kids, particularly when people are on minimum wage which invariably those are the ones who end up applying for aid.

I agree that the population is out of control in the US and rest of the world but young adults (and teens) in the US don't know exactly how much children cost anyway. Its irresponsible but that's how a lot of us got here.

Lots of poor folks have raised great kids so finances isn't the main factor on whether you'll be a good parent.

Giving up a few luxuries can buy a lot of diapers and baby food.

Not saying poor or people who don;t have a lot of money shouldn't have children, but if you have to apply for government aid to afford them it's not a good idea.

Agree, if you need the government to feed your kids, not a good situation.
than a few months. He always invariably lost them, and it was never his fault. Goes back to that responsibility thing I guess.

Sorry to hear about that. I'm not a dad (yet ) but I'd work any job to make sure my kids had food and clothing.[/quote]

You're going to make a great father!

If it wasn't for my mother we wouldn't have had what we had. She worked two jobs at times to make up for the slack. It wasn't so much the not having money, it was the instability of living in a family where you never quite knew what was going to happen one day from the next.

[Rip Rokken]

REAL ID- AKA NATIONAL ID

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/12/ramasastry.ids/index.html

This article is from 05, but they are coming into effect this year. Even if a state opts out , that state's citizens will be treated like a second class citizin. You won't be allowed to travel between states, much less outside the country.

An article from today. CNET.com

http://www.news.com/Federal-buildings-become-Real-ID-zones/2009-1028_3-6229133.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&subj=news

Ok, I quickly read both. The '05 CNN article is an editorial by a guest writer, and I'd actually read it about a year ago when I was doing some research on it. I had a friend give me a Bible prophecy magazine (I think it was "Awake") which had an article about "National ID", of course tying it in as a predecessor to the Mark of the Beast, and when I researched it, I came away less than impressed. Some of the claims in the magazine seemed blatantly misrepresented, and that is a shame... I am a Christian, and I do believe the Mark of the Beast is coming one day -- and this probably is a step toward that type of system, but we already have tons of things in our society that are also steps in that direction -- things which separate us from our sense of privacy and freedom. So as a Christian who values truth and objectivity above personal agendas and innuendos, I take an extra hard stance against anything false or misleading coming from "my side of the aisle". That magazine clearly misrepresented what Real ID was all about in order to keep people spooked... I ain't that kind of sheep.

Back to the CNN article, again, it was an editorial -- can't really consider it hard news. Yes, the act passed, but we'll probably see lots of last minute compromises before it takes effect, just as with HIPAA -- complying with HIPAA was going to be the death of many small clinics, but again, at the last minute they softened up on many of the things we were so worried about being forced to implement, and overall, HIPAA ended up being not that huge a deal. It actually helped in many areas, because it was more about standardization that anything.

The Real ID act as is has flaws and concerns, yes, but I think the intentions are halfway good. As with HIPAA, it's really about standardization, and asking states to conform to a specific set of data. It's not even a Federally issued ID card (which is why I feel the term "National ID" is kind of misleading) -- states still produce the cards, but must conform to certain standards that are nationally recognized. Sure, there is the security aspect, and I don't blame them for not allowing people into Govt. buildings without a trusted form of identification. But you also made a comment about people being treated like second class citizens, and not being able to travel from state to state -- I saw nothing of that in either of those articles, and that sounds more like the kind of stuff I read in "Awake". Just trying to be objective.

The Mark o' the Beast is coming for sure -- but this ain't it.

[stevew2]

Maybe Bush 41 will run? Or maybe Limbaugh? The party's falling apart, literally.

limbaugh let mccain have it BAD today!!

How would you know? You actually listen to him? Rush called McCain "anal poison."

heck NO i dont listen to him.. BUT i watch the news and read lots of internet papers.. plus.. "i hear tings.. i hear tings."

damn he looks fucking old

[bluejeangirl76]

You shouldn't have children you can't afford. That's not heartless that's smart. It is irresponsible to have kids, particularly when people are on minimum wage which invariably those are the ones who end up applying for aid.

I agree that the population is out of control in the US and rest of the world but young adults (and teens) in the US don't know exactly how much children cost anyway. Its irresponsible but that's how a lot of us got here.

Lots of poor folks have raised great kids so finances isn't the main factor on whether you'll be a good parent.

Giving up a few luxuries can buy a lot of diapers and baby food.

Not saying poor or people who don;t have a lot of money shouldn't have children, but if you have to apply for government aid to afford them it's not a good idea.

I grew up with no money. I lived in a trailor park and was driven to school in clunky car that made me smell of exhaust. It was humiliating. My father refused to accept responsibility for anything. Still doesn't. He never worked a nine to five job for longer than a few months. He always invariably lost them, and it was never his fault. Goes back to that responsibility thing I guess.

It's not as black and white as all that. What about the people who are doing just fine and end up in tough situations due to normal life circumstances. The company closes and lays people off, etc. What about the people who don't plan on children and DO take the appropriate precautions, and end up in that -3% where they get pregnant anyway. It happens a lot more than people think and it doesn't mean that there's a lack of responsibility.

[ohsherrie]

That's why no one should have children sherrie.
They might get sick or become too expensive, thus making us all irresponsible people.

You shouldn't have children you can't afford. That's not heartless that's smart. It is irresponsible to have kids, particularly when people are on minimum wage which invariably those are the ones who end up applying for aid.

Of course they shouldn't scary. I've never said they should. Based on the things you've said I agree that it was probably a very wise decision for you not to have children.

However, the point I was trying to make to you the other day when it got lost in all of the outrageous hyperbole is that many thousands of families who had no reason to think they wouldn't be able to afford their children no longer can through no fault of their own.

Couples who got married in the late 80s and early 90s and were doing well in jobs and careers that they thought they could count on had children and planned on a good future for them.

Then our government took these working families' tax money and paid the companies they worked for to take their jobs overseas. Now these families' incomes have been suddenly cut in half because contrary to what some uninformed people have said on here, there are no jobs that these people can step into and resume, or even ever hope to attain, the same level of income.

They can no longer afford their mortgages, they've lost their health care benefits and are very unlikely to find jobs that provide group plans. They can't afford the rest of the care for their daughter's braces. They can't afford for their son to continue his physical rehab on the leg he broke playing football last year. They can't afford to keep their oldest on college. If one of them has an illness that requires hospitalization they're just up shit creek, but hey, it's their own fault right? They should have known better than to believe they had a chance at a future on those middle class earnings.

Yes both parents might be able to go out and get multiple minimum wage jobs to be able to provide basic shelter, food, and clothing for the family. I don't know when they would have time to be parents of course. But hey none of that is the government's responsibility, right? Even though they literally paid those companies to take these people's futures away from them, it's up to these people to root little pig or die, right? That's the American way, right? The government can take our tax money and use it to destroy our economic stability, but we're supposed to be happy that all of those CEOs and CFOs are making all those billions and keeping the stock market rolling so the rich can get richer while the middle class disintegrates into poverty, right?

By the way did you know that's how Romney got so rich? He bought companies and shut them down putting people out of work. But hey, that's the American way, right?

[bluejeangirl76]

Couples who got married in the late 80s and early 90s and were doing well in jobs and careers that they thought they could count on had children and planned on a good future for them.

Then our government took these working families' tax money and paid the companies they worked for to take their jobs overseas. Now these families' incomes have been suddenly cut in half because contrary to what some uninformed people have said on here, there are no jobs that these people can step into and resume, or even ever hope to attain, the same level of income.

Exactly. That's why I said that its not as cut an dry as its made out to be. A friend of mine got married about 10 years ago and they were planning to save up, buy a house first, plan for children later... the way you're "supposed to"... well guess what, even though they WERE responsible and DID take measures against it, the b.c. failed and they got pregnant right away. What were they supposed to do? Get rid of it? Well, the same folks who don't want the healthcare and services for people in these situations also want to throw out abortion rights, so getting rid of it would be wrong, but applying for government aid for a child they didn't plan, and took measures to prevent, but now have anyway, makes them irresponsible.

We can't have it both ways people.

This is not to say that there aren't people who take advantage of the system, but to generalize and throw everyone into the category of irresponsible is ridiculous. Maybe only independantly wealthy people should have children from now on. Ya know... billionaires... like the Hiltons....

[lights1961]

call me weird...but at the iowa caucus i voted for mccain---only thing that matters right now is victory in IRAQ---everything else will take care of itself after that. But until then
we have way too much money, lifes and security our own at risk to think anything different. IRAQ is the reason McCain will be last man standing come November. Even if the conservatives
hate em. I have said that from day one when he started his campaign. The interesting thing though i thought the dems would implode by now and not the republicans... if the
GOP implosion keeps going, it wont matter if its oboma or hillary each could win all 50 states in a landslide... i am so mad at the GOP right now for how we are treating McCain...



Rick

[mistiejourney]

REAL ID- AKA NATIONAL ID

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/12/ramasastry.ids/index.html

This article is from 05, but they are coming into effect this year. Even if a state opts out , that state's citizens will be treated like a second class citizin. You won't be allowed to travel between states, much less outside the country.

An article from today. CNET.com

http://www.news.com/Federal-buildings-become-Real-ID-zones/2009-1028_3-6229133.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&subj=news

Ok, I quickly read both. The '05 CNN article is an editorial by a guest writer, and I'd actually read it about a year ago when I was doing some research on it. I had a friend give me a Bible prophecy magazine (I think it was "Awake") which had an article about "National ID", of course tying it in as a predecessor to the Mark of the Beast, and when I researched it, I came away less than impressed. Some of the claims in the magazine seemed blatantly misrepresented, and that is a shame... I am a Christian, and I do believe the Mark of the Beast is coming one day -- and this probably is a step toward that type of system, but we already have tons of things in our society that are also steps in that direction -- things which separate us from our sense of privacy and freedom. So as a Christian who values truth and objectivity above personal agendas and innuendos, I take an extra hard stance against anything false or misleading coming from "my side of the aisle". That magazine clearly misrepresented what Real ID was all about in order to keep people spooked... I ain't that kind of sheep.

Back to the CNN article, again, it was an editorial -- can't really consider it hard news. Yes, the act passed, but we'll probably see lots of last minute compromises before it takes effect, just as with HIPAA -- complying with HIPAA was going to be the death of many small clinics, but again, at the last minute they softened up on many of the things we were so worried about being forced to implement, and overall, HIPAA ended up being not that huge a deal. It actually helped in many areas, because it was more about standardization that anything.

The Real ID act as is has flaws and concerns, yes, but I think the intentions are halfway good. As with HIPAA, it's really about standardization, and asking states to conform to a specific set of data. It's not even a Federally issued ID card (which is why I feel the term "National ID" is kind of misleading) -- states still produce the cards, but must conform to certain standards that are nationally recognized. Sure, there is the security aspect, and I don't blame them for not allowing people into Govt. buildings without a trusted form of identification. But you also made a comment about people being treated like second class citizens, and not being able to travel from state to state -- I saw nothing of that in either of those articles, and that sounds more like the kind of stuff I read in "Awake". Just trying to be objective.

The Mark o' the Beast is coming for sure -- but this ain't it.

Rip, you work in a clinic? What do you do? I'm an ER nurse.

[Scarab Pilot]

Can we just vote to go 4 years without a president? Maybe we could just run things on our own. Let's go back to the States running things and take the power out of Washington. None of them on either side of the aisle is worth a spit at this point.