VOTE, Dammit!

[RossValoryRocks]

I'm hearing a lot of the "Let them eat cake" attitude from people on here. Don't forget what happened to the bitch who made that line famous along with all her friends when enough people got fed up enough with the conspicuous excesses of the rich, ruling class and their cavalier attitude towards the deprivation of the lower class. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

No doubt. Its very very easy for people to generalize and throw everyone into the class of "they aren't living the way I live and therefore are not as good as I am" and toot their own horn about how rightous and upstanding they are. It's quite another to find yourself in such a position. We've all had ups and downs and living through it doesn't make a person a hero or give them the right to use to elevate themselves or put other people down for it.

My best friend in the world has been through some of the worst things I could imagine and never ever uses it to gain a damn thing... not sympathy, not help, not anything. She takes it as "such is life, these things happen and all we can do is handle it and do our best to move on". I know that privately she has bad moments over things, but outwardly you would never know it.

It's just an example of the fact that there are good and decent people who, through no fault of their own, run across really bad times and terrible situations. They had their bills paid, good jobs, awesome insurance for their family, the kids were taken care of and they were able to provide for their family nicely. IN ONE MOVE it all went to shit due to the combination of a medical emergency and a few months later, a job loss. So that makes them irresponsible? They should be out of the street because they had children and suddenly found themselves in a bad spot? Well, let me say thank god they had family to help then, becasue by the mentality here, they should have been told "tough shit, you shouldn't have had those kids." How very Christian, as sherrie pointed out.

It's easy to say all that. But when that condom breaks or the diaphragm fails, let's see if the tune changes.

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

I also oppose using my tax money to help any illegal alien. They are criminals and should be thrown out of this country as fast as we can get them out (cue Fyre-whines rant).

[RossValoryRocks]

To some extent you are right...The American citizens pay far more in income taxes on a total dollar basis than American Companies do. It has been going on for years and years and years...and has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat, it has everything to do with the culture of government.

And the wealthiest Americans pay far less of a percentage of their actual income in taxes than average Americans do. They know how to beat the system.

The wealthiest also produce more than the average citizen. The top 5 % of earners pay 40% of the income taxes, the top 10% pay 60% of the total income tax collected.

The % doesn't matter...it is the total dollars. I have a friend who makes a ton of money, and I mean a TON of money. His income tax burden per year is probably more than the combinded income tax burden of everyone that has posted in this thread.

Yet he owns a company that employs 100's...be pays for there health insurance, with a minimal input from them, he provides training and outreach programs to his employees.

Shouldn't he be rewarded for creating good paying jobs and increasing the tax base? Tax him and his company too much and watch what happens to those jobs.

Over-taxation NEVER EVER helps bring in more money. It costs jobs, it costs the government money, it takes more from each of us.

Yeah, but not every wealthy American creates jobs. But they do stimulate the economy.

Not every, but for every Paris Hilton type wealthy american there are 100s of others whose name you have never heard of creating jobs with their small and medium sized businesses.

[conversationpc]

The % doesn't matter...it is the total dollars.

This is where we differ. The % does matter. The percent the person you mentioned isn't going to be as big a deal to him if he's making a ton of money. A rich person paying, say 30% of his income isn't going to burden him as much as a middle class worker paying the same percent.

[NealIsGod]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

The people you describe are poorly educated. That is where the real crisis is in this country. The wrong things are glorified.

[scarygirl]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

The people you describe are poorly educated. That is where the real crisis is in this country. The wrong things are glorified.

There are also education programs available for the taking. Grants, student loans.

[bluejeangirl76]

...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

I also oppose using my tax money to help any illegal alien. They are criminals and should be thrown out of this country as fast as we can get them out (cue Fyre-whines rant).

I agree with you 100% on that whole post, RVR. I was just pointing out that those folks aren't the whole ball of wax and that the gray area here, as with most anything, is quite vast.

Don't get me going on the illegals thing. A rather close and person situation with a few people I know for a fact to be illegal recently has made me want to run and seal the borders MYSELF.

[NealIsGod]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

The people you describe are poorly educated. That is where the real crisis is in this country. The wrong things are glorified.

There are also education programs available for the taking. Grants, student loans.

Yeah, but working hard and getting educated is not seen as a viable solution to the very people who need it, for some reason.

[RossValoryRocks]

The % doesn't matter...it is the total dollars.

This is where we differ. The % does matter. The percent the person you mentioned isn't going to be as big a deal to him if he's making a ton of money. A rich person paying, say 30% of his income isn't going to burden him as much as a middle class worker paying the same percent.

Then you agree with Karl Marx then?

I don't care how much a rich person makes, none of my business as long as it is legal.

A rich person contributes much much more to the economy and to our government than the middle class worker.

[bluejeangirl76]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

The people you describe are poorly educated. That is where the real crisis is in this country. The wrong things are glorified.

There are also education programs available for the taking. Grants, student loans.

Its always just that cut and dry isn't it? If ONLY it really worked that way.

[RossValoryRocks]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

The people you describe are poorly educated. That is where the real crisis is in this country. The wrong things are glorified.

Describe the wrong things you are talking about?

Certainly hard work isn't glorified.

I agree they are poorly educated, but I would propose in addition the are poorly motivated as well.

They have no desire to change because the government is giving them free money, so to speak. What chance do those kids have to get out of the vicious cycle that the welfare state has created?

Welfare was initially set up to help lift you out and up and eventually get off of the government dole...instead it has created generational poverty because they way it works keeps those people who rely on it dependent on the government, and therefor on the politicians who make up the government.

[NealIsGod]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

The people you describe are poorly educated. That is where the real crisis is in this country. The wrong things are glorified.

Describe the wrong things you are talking about?

Drugs, crime, making quick and easy money illegally. A teenager getting a job at McDonalds is a sucker when he could make way more money selling drugs. That's what I mean. Until this culture changes, I don't see much hope.

[RossValoryRocks]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

The people you describe are poorly educated. That is where the real crisis is in this country. The wrong things are glorified.

Describe the wrong things you are talking about?

Drugs, crime, making quick and easy money illegally. A teenager getting a job at McDonalds is a sucker when he could make way more money selling drugs. That's what I mean. Until this culture changes, I don't see much hope.

Absolutely correct them. The ghetto subculture stymies any chance of people getting out the very ghetto the despise.

[scarygirl]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives. I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

The people you describe are poorly educated. That is where the real crisis is in this country. The wrong things are glorified.

There are also education programs available for the taking. Grants, student loans.

Its always just that cut and dry isn't it? If ONLY it really worked that way.

Actually it really is that cut and dry. If you are on the poverty end of the scale and have half way decent grades at the very least assured a good size pell grant. At the very least, those type of monies combined with other types of aid will pay for a a degree at a community college. If you don't have decent grades, you can still go to community college provided you take some remedial courses first. You may have to work on top of that too, but so what? People do that every day. Nothing in this life is ever given. There is always something expected in return.

[ohsherrie]

Now you are generalizing about all the conservatives.

I think there's a lot of unfair generalization on both sides. The people whose rights I'm on here defending are the 3 million ( http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1 ) who have lost their livelihoods since 2000 because the government took tax dollars that they paid plenty of when they had incomes of between $50,000 and $100,000 a year and paid the companies they worked for to move their jobs to Mexico or China. For some reason though, those hard working former middle class Americans have now become lazy, good for nothing, whiners in the eyes of those who haven't suffered this economic tragedy.....yet.

I have no problem helping people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights...what I oppose is using my tax dollars to pay for the mother or father who has 7 illegitimate children with and 8th on the way who gets all the government assistance for free housing and free food for those kids but the kids see none of it. The mom is running around with bling all over, a french manacure and the kids have dirty cloths, ripped shirts, shoes with holes in them, a the bare minimum of food in the frig. I have seen it over and over with my own 2 eyes.

I hate that shit as much as you do, but for some reason because I'm trying to get someone elected who wants to protect American jobs the Reps and Cons on here seem to think I'm whining and asking for handouts.

I also oppose using my tax money to help any illegal alien. They are criminals and should be thrown out of this country as fast as we can get them out (cue Fyre-whines rant).

Absolutely!!! This bullshit of saying we couldn't possibly afford to go out and round them up and transport back to wherever is blowing smoke. They could make a good start by sending them back as they happen to become aware of them. Like the ones who are applying for these ID cards and paying in-state tuition rates in our state colleges and universities.

I resent the hell out of having these people shown more consideration and compassion by this government than those millions who've sunken from a comfortable middle class life into poverty because the government paid back a corporate special interest with their jobs.

[Rockindeano]

Anyone can go to college. Doesn't matter what income you have, you can borrow from loans and also receive Pell grants.

However, Scarygirl is wrong on this. Just because a loan or grant is available, there are extenuating circumstances in life, which may prohibit a person from attending school.

It isn't always that cut and dry, no.

[msmercury01]

Anyone can go to college. Doesn't matter what income you have, you can borrow from loans and also receive Pell grants.

However, Scarygirl is wrong on this. Just because a loan or grant is available, there are extenuating circumstances in life, which may prohibit a person from attending school.

It isn't always that cut and dry, no.

Deano, you are so right about that.

[scarygirl]

Anyone can go to college. Doesn't matter what income you have, you can borrow from loans and also receive Pell grants.

However, Scarygirl is wrong on this. Just because a loan or grant is available, there are extenuating circumstances in life, which may prohibit a person from attending school.

It isn't always that cut and dry, no.

I agree with that. Sometimes due to learning difficulties higher education may not always be an option, but even with that there are programs out that will teach a person enough life skills so that they can hold some kind of job.

Talk about extuniating circumstances. When I was college, there was a girl who had been paralyzed from the neck down in a car accident. She had to have an assistant and the help of a motorized wheel chair, but she fought on anyway. For those that are truly not of sound mind or body, I have no problem giving my tax dollars, but there are a good many out there that are just plain lazy.

[conversationpc]

The % doesn't matter...it is the total dollars.

This is where we differ. The % does matter. The percent the person you mentioned isn't going to be as big a deal to him if he's making a ton of money. A rich person paying, say 30% of his income isn't going to burden him as much as a middle class worker paying the same percent.

Then you agree with Karl Marx then?

I don't care how much a rich person makes, none of my business as long as it is legal.

A rich person contributes much much more to the economy and to our government than the middle class worker.

How the hell is it Marxist to tax everyone at the same rate? Personally, I'd prefer The Fair Tax where everyone pays the same rate. However, those who consume more pay more taxes. Makes sense to me and there's nothing Marxist about it.

Marxism is making sure everyone's INCOME is the same and taking a higher percentage of rich people's income than the lower classes.

[Rockindeano]

I agree with that. Sometimes due to learning difficulties higher education may not always be an option, but even with that there are programs out that will teach a person enough life skills so that they can hold some kind of job.

And there lies the problem. "Some kind of job?" OK..

Mr Joe goes to work, at Home Depot. Works hard for 3 years, and concurrently, goes to his public community college. Eventually gets a finance or business degree, and says goodbye to the HD and goes to work on Wall Street. Nice digs, benefits, good hours, good pay. CEO of big company dances in the naughty area, gets involved with bad people, and makes bad decisions, company goes belly up, all 401K monies are gone, burglarized and swept away into the thin air. Mr Joe, once making good money, now that pillow of cushion is history. However, there is a higher rent fee, credit cards, and a baby on the way. Joe doesn't have the ammo to fight these circumstances. The Feds sleep on it, and fail to prosecute CEO for wrong doing. Even if they do, CEO can't reimburse everyone anyway. Employees, and Joe, are out and on their own, completely assraped. Baby comes, no insurance. Joe's income is down, way down, while his expenses are up, a whole lot. The republican response: Tough.

[scarygirl]

I agree with that. Sometimes due to learning difficulties higher education may not always be an option, but even with that there are programs out that will teach a person enough life skills so that they can hold some kind of job.

And there lies the problem. "Some kind of job?" OK..

Mr Joe goes to work, at Home Depot. Works hard for 3 years, and concurrently, goes to his public community college. Eventually gets a finance or business degree, and says goodbye to the HD and goes to work on Wall Street. Nice digs, benefits, good hours, good pay. CEO of big company dances in the naughty area, gets involved with bad people, and makes bad decisions, company goes belly up, all 401K monies are gone, burglarized and swept away into the thin air. Mr Joe, once making good money, now that pillow of cushion is history. However, there is a higher rent fee, credit cards, and a baby on the way. Joe doesn't have the ammo to fight these circumstances. The Feds sleep on it, and fail to prosecute CEO for wrong doing. Even if they do, CEO can't reimburse everyone anyway. Employees, and Joe, are out and on their own, completely assraped. Baby comes, no insurance. Joe's income is down, way down, while his expenses are up, a whole lot. The republican response: Tough.

The person with the experience and education you describe will be able to find another job, eventually. The quote you quoted me from has nothing to do with that person, but rather the person who due to physical or mental problems is not able to handle all that a classic college education entails. A person in that position will likely need governmental help in addition to the job, and I am for that in that instance.

[Rockindeano]

Dave, do you even know the intricacies of the Fair Tax plan? Unless you make over 200,000 dollars per year, it isn't going to help you. In fact, it is going to hurt you.

[conversationpc]

Dave, do you even know the intricacies of the Fair Tax plan? Unless you make over 200,000 dollars per year, it isn't going to help you. In fact, it is going to hurt you.

Bullcrap. That's a fallacy thrown out there by people who have changed the terms of what The Fair Tax is supposed to be. The Fair Tax plan as put before Congress enacts a 23% tax on all goods and services. People who don't like it because it takes power away from them claim that the tax would be 40% which is untrue.

It's the only tax plan that completely eliminates the tax burden for the poorest Americans, through monthly rebates on the necessities of life, and helps middle income Americans.

Read this article by Laurence J. Kotlikoff, Professor of Economics at Boston University.

http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/TheFairTaxAn ... eStudy.pdf

[Rockindeano]

LOL, forget it Dave. You wouldn't listen to a dissenting POV anyways.

Doesn't matter anyhow, as neither Hillary or Obama will ever consider the Fair Tax anyway, so you have 4-8 years to figure out how to implement it.

[conversationpc]

LOL, forget it Dave. You wouldn't listen to a dissenting POV anyways.

Doesn't matter anyhow, as neither Hillary or Obama will ever consider the Fair Tax anyway, so you have 4-8 years to figure out how to implement it.

Yeah, don't bother to read the article or the study that refutes the information you got from Factcheck.org...

[The FairTax] will collect more money from those earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year and less from those earning more than $200,000 per year.

This sentence is false. And FactCheck.org's own document shows their statement to be false.

FactCheck.org’s statement is based on a U.S. Treasury Department analysis (Figure 9.4 of which is shown) of a plan which is not the FairTax. The chart and the Treasury study depict an alternative retail sales tax plan invented by the Treasury Department that had a different tax base than the FairTax. In fact, the chart depicts a “plan” that does not repeal payroll taxes, which are 41 percent of personal income taxes, and leaves out more than $771 billion in regressive taxes that fall mostly on the poor and middle-income wage earners.[2] Although the chart label refers only to federal income taxes paid, this point is not made in the discussion of the results, thus almost begging for the reader to wrongly infer that the distributional picture portrays the FairTax...

...Only studies that adopt a one year or very short horizon and look at income class show the FairTax to be less progressive than the current system. These studies use data showing that poor people in the aggregate spend many times their income year in and year out which is, of course, impossible. What is really going on is that many who are counted as poor are business owners who lost money, students living off of their parents, or those with illicit or unreported sources of income. The studies are inherently flawed.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?news_ ... le&id=8249

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

I generally agree with the fair tax and a move to a consumption tax -

BUT you need to be careful though - look at what taxes are like in a country like Britain. In Britain value added tax (basically a consumption tax)was introduced under the argument that income tax can than be reduced. BUT - They ended up with both - high income tax AND a high consumption tax (17.5%) .

Tax freedom day-( the last day of the year you pay taxes if all of your income was to go in taxes from Jan 1) is about 2 months later than it is in the US.

The only way a fair tax will work if the Constitution is amended to say that the 16th amendment is null and void, and the amendment must also say that a income tax is NOT authorised by the Constitution. Otherwise, some clown will find a way to sneak in BOTH an oppressive income and consumption tax.

[RossValoryRocks]

LOL, forget it Dave. You wouldn't listen to a dissenting POV anyways.

Doesn't matter anyhow, as neither Hillary or Obama will ever consider the Fair Tax anyway, so you have 4-8 years to figure out how to implement it.

No politician will go for it...it removes too much power from the government and therefore from the politician.

[ohsherrie]

some kind of job.

Why should someone who has had their good, solid, middle class income taken away from them by this government so that the corporate CEOs and CFOs can make a few more billion dollars be happy with "some kind of job" and no health care benefits? They worked for, earned and deserved the lives they had attained. Nobody gave them to them.

Many of them are college graduates, but that degree doesn't do any good when there are no jobs. Do you know how many people with college degrees my daughter supervises answering phones in an insurance customer service center for less than $30,000/yr because they can't find any other job? They couldn't get those jobs with their degrees either. They had to go take classes and pass an insurance board certification exam just like the high school grads they're working beside.

What is right, fair, or honorable about this government not only allowing, but encouraging through corporate welfare and tax cuts, all these job and health care benefit losses so that people like Angelo Mozilo can get millions in severance while the people his Countrywide wrote sub-prime loans for lose their homes? http://i.abcnews.com/Business/MarketTal ... 306&page=1 Yeah he waved $36 million of it. Damned big of him.

[RossValoryRocks]

some kind of job.

Why should someone who has had their good, solid, middle class income taken away from them by this government so that the corporate CEOs and CFOs can make a few more billion dollars be happy with "some kind of job" and no health care benefits? They worked for, earned and deserved the lives they had attained. Nobody gave them to them.

Many of them are college graduates, but that degree doesn't do any good when there are no jobs. Do you know how many people with college degrees my daughter supervises answering phones in an insurance customer service center for less than $30,000/yr because they can't find any other job? They couldn't get those jobs with their degrees either. They had to go take classes and pass an insurance board certification exam just like the high school grads they're working beside.

What is right, fair, or honorable about this government not only allowing, but encouraging through corporate welfare and tax cuts, all these job and health care benefit losses so that people like Angelo Mozilo can get millions in severance while the people his Countrywide wrote sub-prime loans for lose their homes? http://i.abcnews.com/Business/MarketTal ... 306&page=1 Yeah he waved $36 million of it. Damned big of him.

I am curious how you think the government is able to take or give jobs, other than the ones the government has in government itself?

[ohsherrie]

some kind of job.

Why should someone who has had their good, solid, middle class income taken away from them by this government so that the corporate CEOs and CFOs can make a few more billion dollars be happy with "some kind of job" and no health care benefits? They worked for, earned and deserved the lives they had attained. Nobody gave them to them.

Many of them are college graduates, but that degree doesn't do any good when there are no jobs. Do you know how many people with college degrees my daughter supervises answering phones in an insurance customer service center for less than $30,000/yr because they can't find any other job? They couldn't get those jobs with their degrees either. They had to go take classes and pass an insurance board certification exam just like the high school grads they're working beside.

What is right, fair, or honorable about this government not only allowing, but encouraging through corporate welfare and tax cuts, all these job and health care benefit losses so that people like Angelo Mozilo can get millions in severance while the people his Countrywide wrote sub-prime loans for lose their homes? http://i.abcnews.com/Business/MarketTal ... 306&page=1 Yeah he waved $36 million of it. Damned big of him.

I am curious how you think the government is able to take or give jobs, other than the ones the government has in government itself?

They took the jobs by paying the corporations to move them out of the country.

[scarygirl]

some kind of job.

Why should someone who has had their good, solid, middle class income taken away from them by this government so that the corporate CEOs and CFOs can make a few more billion dollars be happy with "some kind of job" and no health care benefits? They worked for, earned and deserved the lives they had attained. Nobody gave them to them.

Many of them are college graduates, but that degree doesn't do any good when there are no jobs. Do you know how many people with college degrees my daughter supervises answering phones in an insurance customer service center for less than $30,000/yr because they can't find any other job? They couldn't get those jobs with their degrees either. They had to go take classes and pass an insurance board certification exam just like the high school grads they're working beside.

What is right, fair, or honorable about this government not only allowing, but encouraging through corporate welfare and tax cuts, all these job and health care benefit losses so that people like Angelo Mozilo can get millions in severance while the people his Countrywide wrote sub-prime loans for lose their homes? http://i.abcnews.com/Business/MarketTal ... 306&page=1 Yeah he waved $36 million of it. Damned big of him.

Why don't you quote me properly? I said...

(I agree with that. Sometimes due to learning difficulties higher education may not always be an option, but even with that there are programs out that will teach a person enough life skills so that they can hold some kind of job.)

The above quote refers to people who due to physical or mental short comings for whatever reason cannot attain a college degree. In that case, I said there are skills programs available so that a person can become somewhat self sufficent in some type of job.

As to your daughter, there are lots of people in that situation. I make what she makes with a college degree. I also hold a similar position, I'm an office manager. If I wanted to, I could get another job making more, but I haven't made the move yet, and that is my choice.