Where are They Now? Standard Tune, a Half or Full Step Down?

[Aaron]

How are the boys these day on tour? Are they still a half step down?

[G.I.Jim]

How are the boys these day on tour? Are they still a half step down?

It seems to vary from show to show. Maybe they just see how Arnel feels on any given night, and just accomidate his vocals? I don't know, but I can't think of any other reason.

[whirlwind]

How are the boys these day on tour? Are they still a half step down?

They want to tour so if the concert crowd loves them non-the-less and it will save Arnels vocals, it's understood. I don't think that the band is out to please a lot of us purists. They want to tour and please the crowds.

[Rick]

If they were tuned down in Thackerville, I am not musically adept enough to have caught it. I have to physically compare a performance to the CD version before I can tell the difference.

[strangegrey]

I think it's odd that they would bounce back and forth between tuning down and concert pitch. Hell, the guitar and piano techs would go fucking nuts trying to re-intonate and re-tune the instruments.

There aren't many folks out there that can tell the difference from sitting in the audience, unless they have an ipod handy to reference standard pitch against what they're playing at...

I think it's a senseless thing to fixate on. Tuning down will save arnel's voice and prolong his tenure with the band a bit...so it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Hell, when Perry did his 94 tour, they tuned down...and did so without the usenet groups hawking on about it....

[steveo777]

I think it's odd that they would bounce back and forth between tuning down and concert pitch. Hell, the guitar and piano techs would go fucking nuts trying to re-intonate and re-tune the instruments.

There aren't many folks out there that can tell the difference from sitting in the audience, unless they have an ipod handy to reference standard pitch against what they're playing at...

I think it's a senseless thing to fixate on. Tuning down will save arnel's voice and prolong his tenure with the band a bit...so it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Hell, when Perry did his 94 tour, they tuned down...and did so without the usenet groups hawking on about it....

Maybe if they had tuned down when Steve Augeri was with them, he might still be there. All scandals aside, I think this problem with SA really shook them up and got them to see that some changes needed to be made or they would face a certain string of yet more singers. I don't think the fans could take much more change. So if tuning down a bit keeps them intact for some years more, I'm all for it.

[strangegrey]

Maybe if they had tuned down when Steve Augeri was with them, he might still be there. All scandals aside, I think this problem with SA really shook them up and got them to see that some changes needed to be made or they would face a certain string of yet more singers. I don't think the fans could take much more change. So if tuning down a bit keeps them intact for some years more, I'm all for it.

Who knows!! Hard to speculate on the 'what ifs'...I remember a few years ago, commenting that they were going at it hard with Augeri for a while...and that what really would have helped was a break. I remember looking at the tour itineraries of Journey during the departure-frontiers era and marveling at how many more performances they did with augeri during the same period...and Perry himself broke down and burned out. So it's hard to suggest that it would have been any different, regardless of the key.

I can speak from experience, that dropping a half a step has done wonders in the bands I was in. The 'part-time' singers like myself were able to sing more comfortably without feeling like we needed to fight, just to sing the songs. Granted, that would be a factor of insignificance to a seasoned singer...however, what was significant was the wear and tear to a voice, for someone singing full-time. Every singer in my cover band situations would marvel about how much less tear they got when we played a half a step down. One guy was a real whack job...he had this very disgusting concoction of herbal tea mixed with honey, vinegar and salt. (I would go "that's not vocal preparation, that's oral douching!" LOL)...regardless, when we switched to 1/2 step down, he stopped using the tea...claiming that he no longer needed to. He would be able to sing 3 hours a night and feel comfortable he could do it 2-3 times a week without taking extra measures....


Anyone that's a singer will comment that this catalog is one of the hardest catalogs to sing out there, period. There's more vocal acrobatics in one Journey song than 5/6 of most current artist's catalogs. So to that end, be it Arnel, Augeri, Perry...I think that the aggregate benefit of singing in a lower key is obvious....I remember reading how JSS felt it didn't work for him. So there's some artist interpretation here...

Perhaps the reason they are going 1/2 step down now, is a factor of Arnel than a factor of the rest of the band saying Arnel should do it. Referring back to my above comments about doing this in my own cover band, perhaps Arnel did it in the Zoo enough for Arnel to feel more comfortable doing it with Journey.

[G.I.Jim]

Maybe if they had tuned down when Steve Augeri was with them, he might still be there. All scandals aside, I think this problem with SA really shook them up and got them to see that some changes needed to be made or they would face a certain string of yet more singers. I don't think the fans could take much more change. So if tuning down a bit keeps them intact for some years more, I'm all for it.

Who knows!! Hard to speculate on the 'what ifs'...I remember a few years ago, commenting that they were going at it hard with Augeri for a while...and that what really would have helped was a break. I remember looking at the tour itineraries of Journey during the departure-frontiers era and marveling at how many more performances they did with augeri during the same period...and Perry himself broke down and burned out. So it's hard to suggest that it would have been any different, regardless of the key.

I can speak from experience, that dropping a half a step has done wonders in the bands I was in. The 'part-time' singers like myself were able to sing more comfortably without feeling like we needed to fight, just to sing the songs. Granted, that would be a factor of insignificance to a seasoned singer...however, what was significant was the wear and tear to a voice, for someone singing full-time. Every singer in my cover band situations would marvel about how much less tear they got when we played a half a step down. One guy was a real whack job...he had this very disgusting concoction of herbal tea mixed with honey, vinegar and salt. (I would go "that's not vocal preparation, that's oral douching!" LOL)...regardless, when we switched to 1/2 step down, he stopped using the tea...claiming that he no longer needed to. He would be able to sing 3 hours a night and feel comfortable he could do it 2-3 times a week without taking extra measures....


Anyone that's a singer will comment that this catalog is one of the hardest catalogs to sing out there, period. There's more vocal acrobatics in one Journey song than 5/6 of most current artist's catalogs. So to that end, be it Arnel, Augeri, Perry...I think that the aggregate benefit of singing in a lower key is obvious....I remember reading how JSS felt it didn't work for him. So there's some artist interpretation here...

Perhaps the reason they are going 1/2 step down now, is a factor of Arnel than a factor of the rest of the band saying Arnel should do it. Referring back to my above comments about doing this in my own cover band, perhaps Arnel did it in the Zoo enough for Arnel to feel more comfortable doing it with Journey.

Great post, and I agree. I don't think it was so much the key of the songs, but they just toured him to DEATH! I understand that that's how they make a living, but they could have gone much easier on him. That's what I think did him in.

[Jana]

How are the boys these day on tour? Are they still a half step down?

It seems to vary from show to show. Maybe they just see how Arnel feels on any given night, and just accomidate his vocals? I don't know, but I can't think of any other reason.

I don't think it has varied. I think the DVD Manila show this year was the only non-tuned down show. The rest of the spring tour and European tour and U.S. tour has been tuned-down a half step from what I understand. I'm not a hundred percent on it.

[Jana]

Maybe if they had tuned down when Steve Augeri was with them, he might still be there. All scandals aside, I think this problem with SA really shook them up and got them to see that some changes needed to be made or they would face a certain string of yet more singers. I don't think the fans could take much more change. So if tuning down a bit keeps them intact for some years more, I'm all for it.

Who knows!! Hard to speculate on the 'what ifs'...I remember a few years ago, commenting that they were going at it hard with Augeri for a while...and that what really would have helped was a break. I remember looking at the tour itineraries of Journey during the departure-frontiers era and marveling at how many more performances they did with augeri during the same period...and Perry himself broke down and burned out. So it's hard to suggest that it would have been any different, regardless of the key.

I can speak from experience, that dropping a half a step has done wonders in the bands I was in. The 'part-time' singers like myself were able to sing more comfortably without feeling like we needed to fight, just to sing the songs. Granted, that would be a factor of insignificance to a seasoned singer...however, what was significant was the wear and tear to a voice, for someone singing full-time. Every singer in my cover band situations would marvel about how much less tear they got when we played a half a step down. One guy was a real whack job...he had this very disgusting concoction of herbal tea mixed with honey, vinegar and salt. (I would go "that's not vocal preparation, that's oral douching!" LOL)...regardless, when we switched to 1/2 step down, he stopped using the tea...claiming that he no longer needed to. He would be able to sing 3 hours a night and feel comfortable he could do it 2-3 times a week without taking extra measures....


Anyone that's a singer will comment that this catalog is one of the hardest catalogs to sing out there, period. There's more vocal acrobatics in one Journey song than 5/6 of most current artist's catalogs. So to that end, be it Arnel, Augeri, Perry...I think that the aggregate benefit of singing in a lower key is obvious....I remember reading how JSS felt it didn't work for him. So there's some artist interpretation here...

Perhaps the reason they are going 1/2 step down now, is a factor of Arnel than a factor of the rest of the band saying Arnel should do it. Referring back to my above comments about doing this in my own cover band, perhaps Arnel did it in the Zoo enough for Arnel to feel more comfortable doing it with Journey.

Very informative and interesting post.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Maybe if they had tuned down when Steve Augeri was with them, he might still be there. All scandals aside, I think this problem with SA really shook them up and got them to see that some changes needed to be made or they would face a certain string of yet more singers. I don't think the fans could take much more change. So if tuning down a bit keeps them intact for some years more, I'm all for it.

To date, I don't think the band or SA has ever been asked if they tried tuning them down during SA’s tenure.
Remember, the band tried to accommodate Jeff by doing so, and he actually found it more difficult.
It’s possible the same thing happened with SA.

I think AlienC (or some other former employee) mentioned that the band was encouraged early-on to have Deen sing and share the brunt.
Whether it was Augeri’s choice or the bands’, Augeri sang the motherload and paid for it dearly.

[RossValoryRocks]

I think it's odd that they would bounce back and forth between tuning down and concert pitch. Hell, the guitar and piano techs would go fucking nuts trying to re-intonate and re-tune the instruments.

There aren't many folks out there that can tell the difference from sitting in the audience, unless they have an ipod handy to reference standard pitch against what they're playing at...

I think it's a senseless thing to fixate on. Tuning down will save arnel's voice and prolong his tenure with the band a bit...so it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Hell, when Perry did his 94 tour, they tuned down...and did so without the usenet groups hawking on about it....

Frank bro...they don't have to tune the instruments down to "detune". The notes are already there. They would just have to play them differently.

Of course...they could tune the guitar down as you say, but why would they?

[Rick]

I think it's odd that they would bounce back and forth between tuning down and concert pitch. Hell, the guitar and piano techs would go fucking nuts trying to re-intonate and re-tune the instruments.

There aren't many folks out there that can tell the difference from sitting in the audience, unless they have an ipod handy to reference standard pitch against what they're playing at...

I think it's a senseless thing to fixate on. Tuning down will save arnel's voice and prolong his tenure with the band a bit...so it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Hell, when Perry did his 94 tour, they tuned down...and did so without the usenet groups hawking on about it....

Frank bro...they don't have to tune the instruments down to "detune". The notes are already there. They would just have to play them differently.

Of course...they could tune the guitar down as you say, but why would they?

They do tune down, because it's far easier to play the instruments tuned down, then trying to figure out the other chord progressions. They would make mistakes, being used to playing them the same way for, what is it, 56 year now?

[RossValoryRocks]

I think it's odd that they would bounce back and forth between tuning down and concert pitch. Hell, the guitar and piano techs would go fucking nuts trying to re-intonate and re-tune the instruments.

There aren't many folks out there that can tell the difference from sitting in the audience, unless they have an ipod handy to reference standard pitch against what they're playing at...

I think it's a senseless thing to fixate on. Tuning down will save arnel's voice and prolong his tenure with the band a bit...so it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Hell, when Perry did his 94 tour, they tuned down...and did so without the usenet groups hawking on about it....

Frank bro...they don't have to tune the instruments down to "detune". The notes are already there. They would just have to play them differently.

Of course...they could tune the guitar down as you say, but why would they?

They do tune down, because it's far easier to play the instruments tuned down, then trying to figure out the other chord progressions. They would make mistakes, being used to playing them the same way for, what is it, 56 year now?

I bet they don't retune the piano for sure...they guitar...MAYBE...but I doubt it.

They are good enough musicians to play the songs without retuning the instruments.

But I will find out for sure shortly.

[WalrusOct9]

um....guitars HAVE To be retuned. Guitar riffs with open chords (which, at some point involves almost every Journey song ever) can't be properly transposed. You can't play "Stone In Love" any other way besides open G, D, and C shapes.


I think the piano is actually some kind of electric keyboard, so it's just a matter of pressing a transpose button somewhere, or some MIDI device being involved to move the keyboards down 1/2 step.

[Liquid_Drummer]

How are the boys these day on tour? Are they still a half step down?

It seems to vary from show to show. Maybe they just see how Arnel feels on any given night, and just accomidate his vocals? I don't know, but I can't think of any other reason.

I don't think it has varied. I think the DVD Manila show this year was the only non-tuned down show. The rest of the spring tour and European tour and U.S. tour has been tuned-down a half step from what I understand. I'm not a hundred percent on it.

I chatted with Arnel about this. He said that all shows are 1/2 step down and that the dvd shoot was the only standard pitch gig of the whole tour. He seemed a little um, sad that it had to happen and said that it really bothers him that he couldnt do it in standard without shredding his voice and that getting older sucks. I told him he was lucky to be able to do it at all and that perry had to do the same thing on his solo tour which Arnel appeared to not know about. He then asked me for the youtube links which I provided. He told me it was a mutual agreement by all because they intend it to last. It appears they are being very cool with Arnel.

[Ehwmatt]

um....guitars HAVE To be retuned. Guitar riffs with open chords (which, at some point involves almost every Journey song ever) can't be properly transposed. You can't play "Stone In Love" any other way besides open G, D, and C shapes.


I think the piano is actually some kind of electric keyboard, so it's just a matter of pressing a transpose button somewhere, or some MIDI device being involved to move the keyboards down 1/2 step.

Yes and yes.

And detuning guitars is not the horrific ordeal some of you seem to think it is. I could have detuned my guitar in the 2 minutes it took me to skim this thread.

[strangegrey]

Frank bro...they don't have to tune the instruments down to "detune". The notes are already there. They would just have to play them differently.

Of course...they could tune the guitar down as you say, but why would they?

Stu,

Actually, that's not the case. It'd be dreadfully hard to play songs like DSB or Separate Ways on guitar, as both songs contain riffs that use the low E string to significant effect. To 'transpose' the songs and play the riffs 1/2 a step down without tuning the guitar down would sound awful. You can play the 'notes' but not the 'riffs' as intended....

Plus, there's alot of 'muscle memory' that goes into playing these parts. It'd be alot easier to simply play the guitar as if it were tuned to A440, but it's really 1/2 a step down. You play the same positions, notes, riffs, but the end result is that it's down in pitch.

So really, it's better to just retune the guitar for E flat.

Some other issues come into play with tuning down for guitar...things like string tension (which can be masked slightly with heavier strings) adjusting Neal's Floyd Rose, neck relief and intonation....so it may take more than 2 minutes to get a guitar prepped for playing lower.


Granted, most major rock show techs will restring guitars each day. When I met Neal's tech back in 2001, he indicated that Neal's strings were getting changed with such frequency. When you change strings, you do a quick check of intonation, setup, etc...So really, it's going to happen anyway. Tuning down to the lower pitch is, at that point, a switch on the peterson tuner.


As for the Whale, again, when I saw these guys work in 2001, they were retuning the whale each and every day. I suspect packing it up and moving it from stage to stage makes it susceptible to pitch changes....But regardless, it would make alot of sense to keep the piano at one pitch and not go back and forth....



As far as changing Cain's keyboards (other than the piano), transposing the instruments from A440 concert pitch to 1/2 step down would be as simple as hitting a few buttons to adjust the keyboard....then play as usual, and the end result is a half step lower.





All of this pales in comparison to the adjustment a singer has to make with his instrument when going from one step to another! All a guitarist, bassist or piano player needs to do is retune the instrument and play the same notes...a singer actually has to sing higher or lower...

[sonorstks]

Most of Keep On Runnin' with Deen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii0G9Xv0cPs

So this is tuned down a 1/2 step. My ears must be bad. Sounds pretty spot on to me...Anyone???

[Ehwmatt]

Frank bro...they don't have to tune the instruments down to "detune". The notes are already there. They would just have to play them differently.

Of course...they could tune the guitar down as you say, but why would they?

So really, it's better to just retune the guitar for E flat.

Some other issues come into play with tuning down for guitar...things like string tension (which can be masked slightly with heavier strings) adjusting Neal's Floyd Rose, neck relief and intonation....so it may take more than 2 minutes to get a guitar prepped for playing lower.


Granted, most major rock show techs will restring guitars each day. When I met Neal's tech back in 2001, he indicated that Neal's strings were getting changed with such frequency. When you change strings, you do a quick check of intonation, setup, etc...So really, it's going to happen anyway. Tuning down to the lower pitch is, at that point, a switch on the peterson tuner.


All of this pales in comparison to the adjustment a singer has to make with his instrument when going from one step to another! All a guitarist, bassist or piano player needs to do is retune the instrument and play the same notes...a singer actually has to sing higher or lower...

If they were tuning down any farther than a half step it'd be more complicated, and the Floyd might need to be adjusted initially, a good point I didn't think of since I've never owned a Floyd for longer than a month (prefer "vintage" tremolos so much more), but a mere half step down on a good guitar probably wouldn't require too much fuckin around with the set up past tuning it, especially since there's new strings every gig. I have no problems with intonation/pitch etc. when tuning down half a step with newer strings on a well set-up guitar like my Lukather or my American Strat.

Plus all that's moot, Neal's got plenty of guitars, they could keep half of them in E standard and half in E flat or whatever if they really wanted to make a "game time" tuning decision. Probably just more of a mess than they care to deal with... esp if the Whale needs to be tuned.

[madsplash]

Most of Keep On Runnin' with Deen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii0G9Xv0cPs

So this is tuned down a 1/2 step. My ears must be bad. Sounds pretty spot on to me...Anyone???

Why would they play in a lower key with Deen? He doesn't sing much and doesn't need them to, to save his voice.

[Ehwmatt]

Most of Keep On Runnin' with Deen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii0G9Xv0cPs

So this is tuned down a 1/2 step. My ears must be bad. Sounds pretty spot on to me...Anyone???

Why would they play in a lower key with Deen? He doesn't sing much and doesn't need them to, to save his voice.

Cause everything else has been lowered already... apparently they don't want to take the trouble of having a few basses/guitar tuned for E standard AND E flat. But I guess I understand if the whale still needs to be tuned, I thought Cain simply put an electric keyboard in the old Whale shell nowadays, but I may be wrong. Transposing on keyboards/MIDI instruments is so easy, literally a touch of a button or two.

[texafana]

Neal's sound is more bluesy rock than ever before and tuning a half step down actually gives the guitar a slightly more robust low end sound. Alot of you have posted comments about Neal's recent (past year or so) kick ass guitar sound, and detuning a half step down has probably contributed to this.

[Ehwmatt]

Neal's sound is more bluesy rock than ever before and tuning a half step down actually gives the guitar a slightly more robust low end sound. Alot of you have posted comments about Neal's recent (past year or so) kick ass guitar sound, and detuning a half step down has probably contributed to this.

I'd have to hear it live to comment definitively. For me, I never quite feel "right" playing in Eb... something just sounds off to me when I try and play along to old EVH or Guns N Roses songs. I just like the sound of open chords in E standard.

[strangegrey]

If they were tuning down any farther than a half step it'd be more complicated, and the Floyd might need to be adjusted initially, a good point I didn't think of since I've never owned a Floyd for longer than a month (prefer "vintage" tremolos so much more), but a mere half step down on a good guitar probably wouldn't require too much fuckin around with the set up past tuning it, especially since there's new strings every gig. I have no problems with intonation/pitch etc. when tuning down half a step with newer strings on a well set-up guitar like my Lukather or my American Strat.

Plus all that's moot, Neal's got plenty of guitars, they could keep half of them in E standard and half in E flat or whatever if they really wanted to make a "game time" tuning decision. Probably just more of a mess than they care to deal with... esp if the Whale needs to be tuned.

All good points, but I'll add, having been a floyd player for years (I no longer play anything other than fixed bridge or completely blocked trems)....the problem with floyds is that the spring tension is designed for a particular pitch. When you change the pitch a guitar is tuned to, the springs need to be adjusted. Same thing with neck relief. The truss rod needs to be adjusted as the guitar neck is seeing less pull by the strings. You will have to reduce the tension to have the same action/relief.

regarding intonation...I agree that it's practically a non-issue. It really depends on how much of a stickler Schon is regarding intonation. If they're using a peterson to tune the guitars, they'll see the difference. If they're using a boss stomper to tune the guitars, they wont see a difference at all...


btw, The Musicman's a friggin amazing instruments. I played a handful of Family Reserve Lukes and Petruccis the other day...and I was smitten. If I only had 2500 bucks to play with, I'd own one!

[Aaron]

Folks,

Thanks for the updates. It looks like they are still down a half step. I find it interesting that the only gig they do in the original key is the one being recorded. That in itself says the band is concerned about the issue. As already stated, the guitars will need to be detuned to be able to play the tunes properly. There's no need to rehash this.

Given the all of the hoopla with Arnel being the new singer has passed, I wanted to give Journey a fresh listen. I got my chance today to hear them on Palladia this afternoon. I only got to hear AWYWI but it didn't take much time to develop an opinion. The song was down a half step and it was obvious. The song lost it's happy bright feeling turning it more melancholy and angry. And after listening to it, Arnel is just not that extraordinary. He sounded ok but not that great. His pronunciation issue was more obvious than I remembered as well.

I can see detuning for Perry but for a replacement singer, I don't think so. Journey has based it's history on feel good, up beat songs. They're songs don't convey the same message being detuned. I was rethinking going to see them at Indy this month. I'm sticking with my original decision of staying home this year, the first time since 1998.

Cheers,

Aaron

[steveo777]

Folks,

Thanks for the updates. It looks like they are still down a half step. I find it interesting that the only gig they do in the original key is the one being recorded. That in itself says the band is concerned about the issue. As already stated, the guitars will need to be detuned to be able to play the tunes properly. There's no need to rehash this.

Given the all of the hoopla with Arnel being the new singer has passed, I wanted to give Journey a fresh listen. I got my chance today to hear them on Palladia this afternoon. I only got to hear AWYWI but it didn't take much time to develop an opinion. The song was down a half step and it was obvious. The song lost it's happy bright feeling turning it more melancholy and angry. And after listening to it, Arnel is just not that extraordinary. He sounded ok but not that great. His pronunciation issue was more obvious than I remembered as well.

I can see detuning for Perry but for a replacement singer, I don't think so. Journey has based it's history on feel good, up beat songs. They're songs don't convey the same message being detuned. I was rethinking going to see them at Indy this month. I'm sticking with my original decision of staying home this year, the first time since 1998.

Cheers,

Aaron

Not to rehash the issue, but nobody, probably, nobody can run that tour schedule with that catalog and have their voice hold up over the long term, in original key. The fact that there are not many singers who can handle the Journey book makes it pretty slim pickins for any replacement singers beyond Perry. I know this is just speculative since nobody has heard Steve sing in a long, long time, but there is no way in freaking hell he could pull off a tour like this anymore, IMO.

I agree with Gunbot on this; tuning down is not the answer, they need to seriously cut back on the number of gigs they are playing and schedule more off time. Much more than a couple gigs a week and they'll burn Arnel up before half of next season is up.

[Saint John]

I know this is just speculative since nobody has heard Steve sing in a long, long time, but there is no way in freaking hell he could pull off a tour like this anymore, IMO.

Fuck, he couldn't even do it in 1986 without his "vitamin B" shots and he was only, what, 37?

[Don]

Folks,

Thanks for the updates. It looks like they are still down a half step. I find it interesting that the only gig they do in the original key is the one being recorded. That in itself says the band is concerned about the issue. As already stated, the guitars will need to be detuned to be able to play the tunes properly. There's no need to rehash this.

Given the all of the hoopla with Arnel being the new singer has passed, I wanted to give Journey a fresh listen. I got my chance today to hear them on Palladia this afternoon. I only got to hear AWYWI but it didn't take much time to develop an opinion. The song was down a half step and it was obvious. The song lost it's happy bright feeling turning it more melancholy and angry. And after listening to it, Arnel is just not that extraordinary. He sounded ok but not that great. His pronunciation issue was more obvious than I remembered as well.

I can see detuning for Perry but for a replacement singer, I don't think so. Journey has based it's history on feel good, up beat songs. They're songs don't convey the same message being detuned. I was rethinking going to see them at Indy this month. I'm sticking with my original decision of staying home this year, the first time since 1998.

Cheers,

Aaron

Not to rehash the issue, but nobody, probably, nobody can run that tour schedule with that catalog and have their voice hold up over the long term, in original key. The fact that there are not many singers who can handle the Journey book makes it pretty slim pickins for any replacement singers beyond Perry. I know this is just speculative since nobody has heard Steve sing in a long, long time, but there is no way in freaking hell he could pull off a tour like this anymore, IMO.

He wouldn't be expected to. When you bring in a new singer though and talk about how he's bringing the legacy sound back, it seems ridiculous that you've got him singing a halfstep down only 18 months into his tenure. Even songs that are barely a year old are being played this way.
The band pumped up the fans about how Arnel could sing anything and people are expecting that the first few years, at least. Right now it looks like the old bait and switch. First tour, see he's great. Second tour, well, that was a limited time offer on seeing him perform in the correct key, now you get the real Arnel.
What about the next album? Are they going to come out of the gate singing detuned or are they going to actually record the new songs flat ala Coldplay so people won't hear a difference.
The band built this guy up where he ws supposed to be the new version of the voice but they didn't say they meant the 45 year old solo voice we heard stepped down on the FTLOSM tour. Perry already had an excuse, 600 shows with Journey and the fact he was fucking getting old.

[Aaron]

I agree 100%. They should reduce the number of shows to maintain the integrity of the music.

Folks,

Thanks for the updates. It looks like they are still down a half step. I find it interesting that the only gig they do in the original key is the one being recorded. That in itself says the band is concerned about the issue. As already stated, the guitars will need to be detuned to be able to play the tunes properly. There's no need to rehash this.

Given the all of the hoopla with Arnel being the new singer has passed, I wanted to give Journey a fresh listen. I got my chance today to hear them on Palladia this afternoon. I only got to hear AWYWI but it didn't take much time to develop an opinion. The song was down a half step and it was obvious. The song lost it's happy bright feeling turning it more melancholy and angry. And after listening to it, Arnel is just not that extraordinary. He sounded ok but not that great. His pronunciation issue was more obvious than I remembered as well.

I can see detuning for Perry but for a replacement singer, I don't think so. Journey has based it's history on feel good, up beat songs. They're songs don't convey the same message being detuned. I was rethinking going to see them at Indy this month. I'm sticking with my original decision of staying home this year, the first time since 1998.

Cheers,

Aaron

Not to rehash the issue, but nobody, probably, nobody can run that tour schedule with that catalog and have their voice hold up over the long term, in original key. The fact that there are not many singers who can handle the Journey book makes it pretty slim pickins for any replacement singers beyond Perry. I know this is just speculative since nobody has heard Steve sing in a long, long time, but there is no way in freaking hell he could pull off a tour like this anymore, IMO.

I agree with Gunbot on this; tuning down is not the answer, they need to seriously cut back on the number of gigs they are playing and schedule more off time. Much more than a couple gigs a week and they'll burn Arnel up before half of next season is up.