Would a New Perry Solo Album Sell More Than Revelations?

[Saint John]

Are the Eagles the last old school rock act to really sell a ton of discs this decade?
Long Road Out Of Eden (2007)
7X Platinum

The Eagles are in a whole different league though, much more ingrained in Americana... they have an extra generation, if not even 2 generations of fans that absolutely fuckin love them and they've become more heralded over the years after being critically panned in their heyday. It's unfair to compare The Eagles to anyone not in the super big leagues, which includes the likes of U2, Springsteen, Dylan, Stones, McCartney and people of that nature

Herbie's vision was to create that sort of loyal fanbase for Journey, but Nostrildamus wanted to steer the ship...right into the ground.

[strangegrey]

Regardless of whether or not you think it should or shouldn't be platinum, it still is. Whether it deserves the designation or not is really beside the point.

Bullshit....

If you had to write a thesis for a degree....and one of the requirements was a 50 page min.....if at 25 you decided to take 12 papers you wrote for previous classes, and staple them to the end of the 25 page thesis...and ended up with a grand total of 53 pages....

you didn't earn the thesis.



The band got away with utilizing past demos, slapping arnels voice on it, throwing it on the packaging....and cheaply earned the cert on a technicality.

If it were a true 2nd disc of music, it would be a different story and I wouldn't have a problem with it....but the fact of the matter is that these retreads were around since before arnel joined the band. They spent a day in the studio slapping his voice on these tracks and earned a x2 factor on the credit towards this cert.

It's cheap and fraudulent.

[Ehwmatt]

Are the Eagles the last old school rock act to really sell a ton of discs this decade?
Long Road Out Of Eden (2007)
7X Platinum

The Eagles are in a whole different league though, much more ingrained in Americana... they have an extra generation, if not even 2 generations of fans that absolutely fuckin love them and they've become more heralded over the years after being critically panned in their heyday. It's unfair to compare The Eagles to anyone not in the super big leagues, which includes the likes of U2, Springsteen, Dylan, Stones, McCartney and people of that nature

Herbie's vision was to create that sort of loyal fanbase for Journey, but Nostrildamus wanted to steer the ship...right into the ground.

Heh, I don't know about that... you just have to wonder though how massive it would have been had SP jumped back in after Augeri's ouster. Something tells me it would have been similar to the Hell Freezes Over reaction... they woulda been huge again. Now, maybe not quite on that magnitude, but I think it woulda been pretty damn big.

[artist4perry]

I am sure Perry will do fine, and he is well known in many areas.

Here most people only know Journey with his voice. That is all that is played on the radio, and several times a day on several radio stations here.

I respect the band and have no ill will against them.

I just think he can hold his own. He is very missed and very loved. Check out all the blogs and loon sites in his name! I would say he has a great number of fans still.

[YoungJRNY]

IMHO, I believe it would sell about the same, if not a little less than Revelation. I understand Perry is one of the highly anticipated vocalist of all time the world would love to see back. Being this far away from the game and being an artist who was apart of a band still going today and is relevant to the world, I think it'll be tough for him to gain the attention Journey has with Arnel. He doesn't have the story, or band behind him anymore, and his last solo album flopped when talking standards we are used to, back in 1904. You figure the diehard Journey fans and the new fan following of the Pinoy crowd helped Revelation to its peak, so most of these same numbered should be expected that of Revelation, but as far as the vanilla fan is concerned, seeing a Steve Perry solo album probably won't raise any excitement, esp since Journey made Perry, and Perry made Journey, all the while Journey's album with a new singer sitting right next to it will prove that it's up to the diehards to move number sales.

Another thing, I don't want to hear the comparison to Whitney Houston. Houston was more of 90's recognized, and she was always know as WHITNEY HOUSTON. Steve Perry is labeled with Journey and Steve Perry solo has less effect today than that of a Whitney Houston, esp after the turmoil she has went through over the recent years.

[Glenn]

OK, it's moved 750,000-800,000. You think think he would approach that when his last record, WITH a tour, before the industry-wide sales went down did around 500K????

His would-be next album (and I'll happilly buy it and add it to my library) vs Revelation is a Tyson-Spinks waiting to happen. And given that perry KNOWS this, I think we'll be waiting a long time for it TO happen.

Listen, I've got no dog in this fight. If I get a good journey album and a Perry solo record too...I'm happy.

I just take exception to the platinum moniker....which is steeped in fraud.

Compare the fact that Pinoy Nation jumped in and boosted the numbers (and I'm not saying that artificially boosted, just knowing that a good percentage of Journey's current sales can be attributed to something).....and you've got a fair fight.


Can Perry do better than Journey, numbers wise?


I think it's all in all possible....the climate is certainly right....


If Perry's voice is on (and I've no reason to believe otherwise, if he releases something)....and he has a few good tracks on the record. I really think Perry could sell some units....enough to beat out the *real* numbers for Rev? Quite Possibly....


Do I care enough? Not really...like I said. I'll happily buy a Perry record and at this point, probably do the same with another Journey record....even if that drunk buffoon is producing it.


....the way I see it, it's a double win for the fans.



But I just want to make sure Pinoy Quaida or their apologists call a spade a spade.....and not give the hireling too much credit....

Frank I understand what you are saying.....

The Eagles Wall Mart release is 7XPlatinum....Double disc set so it sold 3,500,000 ...

It's like that for every artist that release a double album.

Should it be different? I don't care personally but for arguments sake, sure.

"which is steeped in fraud" is sorta kinda not the right way to describe it...Since it's no secret and the RIAA doesn't try to hide it .... Misleading? I'll go with that.

I also agree that it is a double win for the fans.


Will a new solo Perry move 800,000 units? I am inclined to say no.

[Don]

David Foster.

Call this guy, Steve.

[Don]

OK, it's moved 750,000-800,000. You think think he would approach that when his last record, WITH a tour, before the industry-wide sales went down did around 500K????

His would-be next album (and I'll happilly buy it and add it to my library) vs Revelation is a Tyson-Spinks waiting to happen. And given that perry KNOWS this, I think we'll be waiting a long time for it TO happen.

Listen, I've got no dog in this fight. If I get a good journey album and a Perry solo record too...I'm happy.

I just take exception to the platinum moniker....which is steeped in fraud.

Compare the fact that Pinoy Nation jumped in and boosted the numbers (and I'm not saying that artificially boosted, just knowing that a good percentage of Journey's current sales can be attributed to something).....and you've got a fair fight.


Can Perry do better than Journey, numbers wise?


I think it's all in all possible....the climate is certainly right....


If Perry's voice is on (and I've no reason to believe otherwise, if he releases something)....and he has a few good tracks on the record. I really think Perry could sell some units....enough to beat out the *real* numbers for Rev? Quite Possibly....


Do I care enough? Not really...like I said. I'll happily buy a Perry record and at this point, probably do the same with another Journey record....even if that drunk buffoon is producing it.


....the way I see it, it's a double win for the fans.



But I just want to make sure Pinoy Quaida or their apologists call a spade a spade.....and not give the hireling too much credit....

Frank I understand what you are saying.....

The Eagles Wall Mart release is 7XPlatinum....Double disc set so it sold 3,500,000 ...

It's like that for every artist that release a double album.

Should it be different? I don't care personally but for arguments sake, sure.

"which is steeped in fraud" is sorta kinda not the right way to describe it...Since it's no secret and the RIAA doesn't try to hide it .... Misleading? I'll go with that.

I also agree that it is a double win for the fans.


Will a new solo Perry move 800,000 units? I am inclined to say no.

A little difference between Rev and Eden

Revelation has 10 new songs.
Eden has 20 new songs.

That's why the Eagle's album was eligible for a Grammy and Revelation was not. An album needs to contain at least 51% of material not previously released by the artist to be recognized for an an album of the year award if it's not under the compilation catagory..
Revelation was below that number. Not that they would have been nominated anyway but at least there are some safeguards in place to keep artists from being rewarded for regurgitating their own older material.

[Arianddu]

What in the hell is a sun dried dildo?

Carefully washed and gently dried?

[annie89509]

RIAA designations aside, if the 3-disc set Rev sold 750,000 ... surely, if SP's (presumably) 1 cd reaches 500K, couldn't we say he has outsold Rev? Like Frank says, let's compare apples with apples .....

[SherriBerry]

Whether SP's new album can match sales with 'Revelation' is going to depend a lot on marketing and having at least a couple of stellar singles that get airplay. Being a guest coach on 'American Idol' may be one of the best ways of introducing himself to an entire generation that already love his voice (DSB) but probably aren't familiar with his name separate from Journey. You just can't buy that kind of publicity. A duet with a popular artist like Shania Twain or Carrie Underwood would expose him to new fans as well. So would getting his website up - it's the digital age already! I hate Facebook too, but even I have an account.

As for touring, Shania's first album went multi-platinum without touring (she refused to tour until she had enough of her own songs for a concert), but that was strictly because of the power of videos, marketing, and publicity. If SP sings live on shows like 'Oprah' and gets the TV exposure, does he need to tour? Would SP's touring hurt Journey, because if so, it hurts Azoff and he has too much power through Ticketmaster and possibly LiveNation.

One question though: Journey didn't create a music video for any of the 'Revelation' singles and this still seems like an important factor in selling music, whether it's rock, pop, country, rap, etc. If SP puts out a great video too, wouldn't that significantly increase his chances? He's a smart guy and it's my guess he would want to stomp 'Revelations' and the rerecords into the ground.

[strangegrey]

Fraud is most certainly the wrong word.

Grossly misleading (and enabled by folks here) yes!

Annie, if Rev sold 750k physical copies (adding up to 1.5 platinum) and FTLOSM sold 500k, then Rev outsold Perry.


But even when you compare apples to apples (physical units) you also have to compare time periods. 1994 was a very hostile environment to rock artists in the middle of the grunge/alt era. If Perry releases FTLOSM today....I would almost bet one or two of the jewels that it outsells itself.

So I would love to see what Perry can do in today's climate, given that he's healthy enough to sing.


But really, it's all academic. I think at this point, we should just enjoy the fucking music...all of it.

New JSS on the horizon.
New Journey being recorded with cavedrunk in Nov.
New Perry on the Horizon.
Augeri's busy.


It can't get better than this, can it?

[portland]

Fraud is most certainly the wrong word.

Grossly misleading (and enabled by folks here) yes!

Annie, if Rev sold 750k physical copies (adding up to 1.5 platinum) and FTLOSM sold 500k, then Rev outsold Perry.


But even when you compare apples to apples (physical units) you also have to compare time periods. 1994 was a very hostile environment to rock artists in the middle of the grunge/alt era. If Perry releases FTLOSM today....I would almost bet one or two of the jewels that it outsells itself.

So I would love to see what Perry can do in today's climate, given that he's healthy enough to sing.


But really, it's all academic. I think at this point, we should just enjoy the fucking music...all of it.

New JSS on the horizon.
New Journey being recorded with cavedrunk in Nov.
New Perry on the Horizon.
Augeri's busy.


It can't get better than this, can it?

Nope....only if???? oh nevermind....good morning Frank

[strangegrey]

Nope....only if???? oh nevermind....good morning Frank

LOL....I know you wanna go there. I hear ya!!
I just don't see it happening any time soon....

[Red13JoePa]

RIAA designations aside, if the 3-disc set Rev sold 750,000 ... surely, if SP's (presumably) 1 cd reaches 500K, couldn't we say he has outsold Rev?

Uh, NO.
500 > 750

[strangegrey]

:roll:

RIAA designations aside, if the 3-disc set Rev sold 750,000 ... surely, if SP's (presumably) 1 cd reaches 500K, couldn't we say he has outsold Rev?

Uh, NO.
500 > 750

Red, I think she was assuming that 750k units was the inflated number (which we all know is double that) and not the actual....

[Red13JoePa]

Well she's wrong then.
Straighten her out.

[strangegrey]

Well she's wrong then.
Straighten her out.

I'm on a break from assholishness today. I'll return to be a fucking bastard tomorrow!

[portland]

Well she's wrong then.
Straighten her out.

I'm on a break from assholishness today. I'll return to be a fucking bastard tomorrow!

Man something is not right first Forum One and now this!!! I am going to buy a lottery ticket!!!

[strangegrey]

Man something is not right first Forum One and now this!!! I am going to buy a lottery ticket!!!

Buy 2!

If I don't rip into anyone today and you win, give me the other ticket!

[annie89509]

:roll:

RIAA designations aside, if the 3-disc set Rev sold 750,000 ... surely, if SP's (presumably) 1 cd reaches 500K, couldn't we say he has outsold Rev?

Uh, NO.
500 > 750

Red, I think she was assuming that 750k units was the inflated number (which we all know is double that) and not the actual....

Hey, you guys ... I can count, lol. My point was ... commenting on this topic ... that it would not be a fair comparison... 3-disc set vs. a 1-cd release by SP -- analogous to a gang fight 3 against 1, which happens on MR a lot .

Let's talk again when it's 1 against 1 ...Journey's and SP's new albums in 2010 .

[Rick]

If Journey produced 2 albums with Revelation, is it fair to only give them credit for one?

[annie89509]

Rick, I like to think I'm a fair-minded person (as you well are, also). With regards to Rev's sales, I don't have any doubt that Disc 2 (the re-record of their hits ... and, the live dvd, too) helped their sales. So, yes, the Rev. total sales figures are padded. I have too many casual fans tell me they got the records because they wanted to hear Arnel sing the old hits, the ones they remembered in their youth -- with no regard for the new songs, whatsoever! Heck, I was the one that told them about it -- Wal-mart for $11.88.

How well they do with their next release will be interesting.

[Rick]

Rick, I like to think I'm a fair-minded person (as you well are, also). With regards to Rev's sales, I don't have any doubt that Disc 2 (the re-record of their hits ... and, the live dvd, too) helped their sales. So, yes, the Rev. total sales figures are padded. I have too many casual fans tell me they got the records because they wanted to hear Arnel sing the old hits, the ones they remembered in their youth -- with no regard for the new songs, whatsoever! Heck, I was the one that told them about it -- Wal-mart for $11.88.

How well they do with their next release will be interesting.

I agree that you're fair minded. I suggested that argument for anyone that doesn't think Revelation counts as 2 separately produced CDs.

[annie89509]

Rick, I like to think I'm a fair-minded person (as you well are, also). With regards to Rev's sales, I don't have any doubt that Disc 2 (the re-record of their hits ... and, the live dvd, too) helped their sales. So, yes, the Rev. total sales figures are padded. I have too many casual fans tell me they got the records because they wanted to hear Arnel sing the old hits, the ones they remembered in their youth -- with no regard for the new songs, whatsoever! Heck, I was the one that told them about it -- Wal-mart for $11.88.

How well they do with their next release will be interesting.

I agree that you're fair minded. I suggested that argument for anyone that doesn't think Revelation counts as 2 separately produced CDs.

oh, okay, lol, I jumped to the wrong conclusion .

[LtVanish]

Do you think it would help boost album sales if Perry added a re-recording of "Don't Stop Believin'"?

Especially if recorded as a Smooth Jazz single featuring Chris Botti.

[steveo777]

All this talk about album sales brings me to one question. Just how savy is Azoff? Seems this fucker would be all over trying to maximize exposure and sales any way he can. Seems like he's kind of weak. In hindsight, at least to me, the Walmart marketing had limited benefits. Sure, great distribution, a bigger cut for the artist, vs. going with a major label...I get all that, but production limitations as well as exclusive distribution, excepting the Journey website held sales back, IMO. What about if they had released it for digital download, made it available for sale on Amazon, Best Buy, Target, etc. I know many people who do not shop at Walmart. They buy their music elsewhere. Now we'll see if anyone was paying attention and thought thru how they will market the next album. Maybe they ought to can assoff and get a bigger gun.

[Don]

All this talk about album sales brings me to one question. Just how savy is Azoff? Seems this fucker would be all over trying to maximize exposure and sales any way he can. Seems like he's kind of weak. In hindsight, at least to me, the Walmart marketing had limited benefits. Sure, great distribution, a bigger cut for the artist, vs. going with a major label...I get all that, but production limitations as well as exclusive distribution, excepting the Journey website held sales back, IMO. What about if they had released it for digital download, made it available for sale on Amazon, Best Buy, Target, etc. I know many people who do not shop at Walmart. They buy their music elsewhere. Now we'll see if anyone was paying attention and thought thru how they will market the next album. Maybe they ought to can assoff and get a bigger gun.

There is no bigger gun.
Money now days is from touring where in the 80s it was from record sales and royalty rates while touring back then didn't garner the dollars it does today.
Azoff makes major bucks off of the touring wagon. Who do you think pushed the band to keep going even when Augeri's voice was toast?
Remember, this was supposed to be a slower year for Journey but they still ended up doing over 50 shows and another big tour next year. Revelation was a success to Journey but compared to Azoff's big act (Eagles) it didn't even measure on the richter scale. Journey will lose money on their next album but Azoff will have them recoup it on the road until Pineda can't go anymore.
What they're making on the road now is equivalent in 80s standards to what they were making from record sales back in the day. The problem was (and Herbie has alluded to this repeatedly) Neal and Jon just weren't as smart as Perry about tucking their earnings away for a rainy day (Schon's numerous side project bands, Cain's nine solo albums in the last 15 years). Unfortunately, a few of those past financial investments/ expensive hobbies from some of the band members have allowed Azoff to keep them in his stable under his rules, this last decade. When you hear about Journey making 30+ million from touring, you have to remember who get a sizable piece of that pie.

Live Nation, Ticket Master. Break from Azoff and you might as well retire. There would be nowhere else to go.

All of this simply being conjecture on my part, of course.