Innocent Photos Get Kids Taken Away From Parents

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

[
Thanks, Lula. That was sweet of you to say. Still, it's one of the moments I dread the most. That, & the day she screams the inevitable, "I HATE YOU" all children eventually scream to their parents.!

not necessarily. not all kids do that. what's the secret? dunno. just love her and things will work themselves out.

6 years is time for shorts. imho. it's so cool that you genuinely enjoy spending time with her. she is very blessed.

[JasonD]

Not to say anything about anyones parenting, cuz God knows, we all do it different....but yes, that is very "odd" to me for a grown man to take a bath nude with his 6 year old daughter. 1st grader. I think 4 is pushing it. I think she needs to be bathed by herself with your assistance outside the tub. Im not saying you are wrong....but from the outside looking in, its just "not right", ya know? Reason being, I have memories of 1st grade, and maybe even a bit before that, and one of those memories I wouldnt want to be of me and my Dad in the tub together. I see your point of being in shorts instead, but if I were you I would save that then for the pool. You can have fun with her and laugh just the same while your kneeling down OUTSIDE the tub by her. Im only saying all this because you did ask for an honest opinion. Sorry if I offended you in anyway, I didnt mean too.

Nah, you didn’t offend me at all. I appreciate everyone’s advice & I agree with you. This is exactly what I need: the female viewpoint. I’m great with my daughter when it comes to playing Barbie’s. I have a good imagination & so I can play Barbie’s all day long if I need to!!! It’s those awkward father-daughter moments I need help with.

So then it’s settled!!! No more baths together. I’ll stay on the outside of the tub. Give lots more praise & encouragement in the day-to-day things we do so she won’t feel like I’m abandoning her. Emily really likes our bath times, so I know it’s going to be quite an adjustment, but it’s something I gotta do. She doesn’t like being in the tub by herself & she hates when I get out first. She says, “Daddy, I’m gonna drown. Save me,” even though the water’s only a foot deep. I’ll just have to put less water in the tub, stay by her side & reassure her.

OMG----Listen to me rambling on. Oh well, sorry I got carried away. Thanks again everyone for all your much needed words of wisdom.

[PDiddy75]

Not to say anything about anyones parenting, cuz God knows, we all do it different....but yes, that is very "odd" to me for a grown man to take a bath nude with his 6 year old daughter. 1st grader. I think 4 is pushing it. I think she needs to be bathed by herself with your assistance outside the tub. Im not saying you are wrong....but from the outside looking in, its just "not right", ya know? Reason being, I have memories of 1st grade, and maybe even a bit before that, and one of those memories I wouldnt want to be of me and my Dad in the tub together. I see your point of being in shorts instead, but if I were you I would save that then for the pool. You can have fun with her and laugh just the same while your kneeling down OUTSIDE the tub by her. Im only saying all this because you did ask for an honest opinion. Sorry if I offended you in anyway, I didnt mean too.

Nah, you didn’t offend me at all. I appreciate everyone’s advice & I agree with you. This is exactly what I need: the female viewpoint. I’m great with my daughter when it comes to playing Barbie’s. I have a good imagination & so I can play Barbie’s all day long if I need to!!! It’s those awkward father-daughter moments I need help with.

So then it’s settled!!! No more baths together. I’ll stay on the outside of the tub. Give lots more praise & encouragement in the day-to-day things we do so she won’t feel like I’m abandoning her. Emily really likes our bath times, so I know it’s going to be quite an adjustment, but it’s something I gotta do. She doesn’t like being in the tub by herself & she hates when I get out first. She says, “Daddy, I’m gonna drown. Save me,” even though the water’s only a foot deep. I’ll just have to put less water in the tub, stay by her side & reassure her.


OMG----Listen to me rambling on. Oh well, sorry I got carried away. Thanks again everyone for all your much needed words of wisdom.

Yes, you can make bathtime fun just as much outside the tub for sure! Just tell her that Daddys already clean, and shes gettin to be such a big girl now that with you right there she can show you what a big girl she is by cleaning herself, all by herself like a big girl does! =] * Not saying you cleaned her, but in her head she may be proud to say LOOK DADDY! I did ALL by myself!! *
I think it will all work out for you, and let her know that bathtime by herself can be just as fun, and she will now have even MORE ROOM to play!! She will understand that for sure!!

[PDiddy75]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

My opinion would be YES!!! But only because she's a girl and you asked!!!

Yeah, I guess I kind of agree with you, MG. She is starting to ask questions. I just hate it that she's growing up. Right now she thinks I'm Santa Claus & Jesus & Superman & everything good in the world. I guess I'm just dreading the day when she gets older & she realizes I'm ordinary.

I have another question for anyone's opinion: Do you think it would be okay if I still took baths with her providing I wear shorts? To me, it would be kind of like being in a swimming pool, but since it is a bath & she would still be naked, is that inappropriate at her age? What I'm trying to ask is this: How old is too old for a dad to bathe his daughter? At what age do children start doing that for themselves? Thanks. I appreciate any advice you can give me.

Not to say anything about anyones parenting, cuz God knows, we all do it different....but yes, that is very "odd" to me for a grown man to take a bath nude with his 6 year old daughter. 1st grader. I think 4 is pushing it. I think she needs to be bathed by herself with your assistance outside the tub. Im not saying you are wrong....but from the outside looking in, its just "not right", ya know? Reason being, I have memories of 1st grade, and maybe even a bit before that, and one of those memories I wouldnt want to be of me and my Dad in the tub together. I see your point of being in shorts instead, but if I were you I would save that then for the pool. You can have fun with her and laugh just the same while your kneeling down OUTSIDE the tub by her. Im only saying all this because you did ask for an honest opinion. Sorry if I offended you in anyway, I didnt mean too.

Its hard to put a age limit on that kinda thing ,kids are inocent they trust there parents,if there parents love them and arent wackjobs its really up to them . If they star gettin hair on there junk then thats enough unless you live in WV, or Kentucky

You are too much!! WV or KY!! I cant even take it!!

[DrFU]

[

OMG----Listen to me rambling on. Oh well, sorry I got carried away. Thanks again everyone for all your much needed words of wisdom.

Best way to do away with something is to put something else fun and desirable in its place. Create a whole new Princess Emily big girl bathtime ritual ... bubbles, robe, music, glass of juice in a plastic stemmed glass ... daddy can be the butler instead of a participant ...

[Lula]

jason, you can make it a princess bath. get her special bubble bath, buy her a new towel and washrag, make it "only for daddy's princess" she'll be fine

[Lula]

lol, great minds doc!!

[DrFU]

lol, great minds doc!!

hehehe ... if we couldn't figure out how to get kids to do what we want, our careers would have killed us before now

[strangegrey]

Hate Walmart...haven't been there in over six months! However, I do think the employee was right to report it.

BTW...my abuse was physical, not sexual, and I wish one person had reported those bruises, etc.

Please do not poorly justify your rediculous reasons for condoning the actions of this dispicable walmart employee by highlighting the failings of your school teachers, psychologists, police, immediate and extended family, or otherwise properly trained people......

I'm sorry you were abused. But it does not excuse the actions of this employee, that of his/her employer and the state of Arizona.

For every one, maybe, quite possibly, if you really stretched your imagination, photo...that there's something bad going on....there's literally millions of good, normal families taking their memories to photo developers to get them developed.

Why on earth should I now be scared to death about getting my photos developed for fear of some recovering-smack addict working at wallyworld thinking he or she is a good substitute for child protective services?! Huh?

How the fuck does a minimum wage job qualify anyone to determine whether or not a bruise on a kids arm was a caused by a baseball, since the kid plays on a team coached by his loving father.....or the 1 in a million chance that there might be something sinister there (yet, I remind you the employee is NOT trained to see such things to begin with)


The employee had zero right to do what he did...and I hope the Demaree's win a massive decission against both the state of Arizona and the Walmart corporation...and that douchebag employee is fired, thrown out on his ass and hit by a bus while holding up a sign that says "Will work for food!"

And I hope that in losing this case in a landmark decission, Walmart changes it's photo developing policy to protect it's customers privacy.


And that people will stop using cheap scare tattics to justify raiding someone's privacy.....

[Michigan Girl]

I agree w/this^^^^ 101%!!!!

[JasonD]

lol, great minds doc!!

hehehe ... if we couldn't figure out how to get kids to do what we want, our careers would have killed us before now

Gosh! You ladies have been GREAT!!! ---- ALL OF YOU!!! I love the "Princess Emily" idea b/c she loves everything princess-related. Each year for Halloween she wants to be a princess. She never tires of it. Thanks again SO much for all of your advice. You too, Steve. Thanks, but I think I'm gonna hafta go with the ladies on this one.

[mikemarrs]

i have a five year old girl and four year old boy.what age would it be appropriate to seperate them.they still take baths together but i'm wondering if i need to give them seperate baths.

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

lol, great minds doc!!

hehehe ... if we couldn't figure out how to get kids to do what we want, our careers would have killed us before now

Gosh! You ladies have been GREAT!!! ---- ALL OF YOU!!! I love the "Princess Emily" idea b/c she loves everything princess-related. Each year for Halloween she wants to be a princess. She never tires of it. Thanks again SO much for all of your advice. You too, Steve. Thanks, but I think I'm gonna hafta go with the ladies on this one.

nope, WE never tire of being the princess. hehe have u seen any of ours pics at the shows? hahahaha!!!!

[PDiddy75]

i have a five year old girl and four year old boy.what age would it be appropriate to seperate them.they still take baths together but i'm wondering if i need to give them seperate baths.

I would think soon...just to give them a sense of independence. Maybe 5 and 6, if not sooner?? See, I have 2 boys, which makes it a bit easier in that dept.!

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

i have a five year old girl and four year old boy.what age would it be appropriate to seperate them.they still take baths together but i'm wondering if i need to give them seperate baths.

I would think soon...just to give them a sense of independence. Maybe 5 and 6, if not sooner?? See, I have 2 boys, which makes it a bit easier in that dept.!

yup, move thata way anytime now.

I had all girls but I remember that my mom made me bathe separately from the brothers. But I think it was cuz I was so covered with dirt all the time and she didn't want them to get dirty. dang tomboys......

[walkslikealady]

I don't have to justify my view that I'd do anything to protect a child...including reporting a parent. Maybe the Walmart employee wasn't psychic so they didn't know what was going on.

The last time I went to Walmart I saw several older women (maybe grandmothers working there to supplement their income) so not all Walmart employees are uneducated druggies.

[stevew2]

lol, great minds doc!!

hehehe ... if we couldn't figure out how to get kids to do what we want, our careers would have killed us before now

Gosh! You ladies have been GREAT!!! ---- ALL OF YOU!!! I love the "Princess Emily" idea b/c she loves everything princess-related. Each year for Halloween she wants to be a princess. She never tires of it. Thanks again SO much for all of your advice. You too, Steve. Thanks, but I think I'm gonna hafta go with the ladies on this one.

You played with barbies to long,thats not good, the Ken Doll problablly fucked you up

[PDiddy75]

lol, great minds doc!!

hehehe ... if we couldn't figure out how to get kids to do what we want, our careers would have killed us before now

Gosh! You ladies have been GREAT!!! ---- ALL OF YOU!!! I love the "Princess Emily" idea b/c she loves everything princess-related. Each year for Halloween she wants to be a princess. She never tires of it. Thanks again SO much for all of your advice. You too, Steve. Thanks, but I think I'm gonna hafta go with the ladies on this one.

You played with barbies to long,thats not good, the Ken Doll problablly fucked you up

GASP!

[Arianddu]

I don't have a problem with the Wal-Mart employee - when it comes to children and suspected abuse, it should always be check it out and better safe than sorry - but I do have big issues with the child services employee who made the decision to take the children away. That's knee-jerk beauracracy, somebody covering their own butt, not looking after the welfare of the children.

You don't have a problem with the Wal-Mart employee??

So you don't have a problem with the Wal-Mart employee's invasion of the family's privacy? Last I checked, a walmart employee doesn't go through the necessary training required to spot such 'abuse' in a photograph.

Sorry. This sorta thing is sickening...and equally sickening that you would condone the behavior of this employee. Look at what this piece of shit and his so called 'better safe than sorry' actions resulted in:

Children removed from parents from 1 month
Mother losing her job
Mother and Father put on a list of sex offenders

Holy fucking shit. They couldn't get fucking Michael Jackson on that fucking list, despite gobs of proof...yet these poor parents were thrown on it without so much as a second look. Holy fuck!

If child protective services tried to remove my children because of a bathroom photo of my kids in the bathtub, they'd have a few dead CPS agents to clean up on my front lawn. Holy fuck!

You condone this behavior?

Where do you live? remind me never to go there....last thing I'd want is you developing my photos.

No, I don't have a problem with the Wal-Mart employee, any more than I have a problem with the neighbour who called the cops once when my Mamma and I were having a fight and he heard a huge crash and then silence (the dog freaked out at us yelling, jumped up and knocked over a tea-trolley loaded with dirty glasses I was supposed to have washed which we were fighting about.) My neighbour was concerned and didn't know what was happening, so got it checked out. As it happened, there was nothing wrong, the police found us both cleaning up a lot of broken glass and the dog sitting in a basket licking at a cut paw. We explained what happened, I was obviously ok and more concerned with my dog than anything else, and they left. They did the right thing, my neighbour did the right thing and no one was hurt or the worse for it.

That employee didn't remove those kids - child welfare did.
That employee didn't cost the mother her job - child welfare did.
That employee didn't put the parents on a list of sex offenders - child welfare did.

That employee did what all those neighbours of that poor woman who was kidnapped as a child and held and abused for years should have done - said 'this might not be right, maybe I should tell someone who is qualified to make an assessment.' He or she did the right thing.

But the Welfare officers, who ARE trained, who SHOULD know the difference between child porn and an ordinary, innocent family photo should be strung up by their privates! Like I said before, they weren't looking after the welfare of the children involved, they were covering their own arses. Bureaucratic, self-centred fuckwits like this are the reason why kindergarten teachers can't comfort a child who has fallen over and hurt themselves, why fathers are afraid to kiss or hug their daughters in public, why children whose families need help are institutionalised instead of aided - because the paperwork and red tape protects the welfare workers from prosecution if something goes wrong, which is easier and safer for them than actually assessing situations and making considered decisions. It's the same attitude, just the other end of the scale, that keeps genuine offenders out of gaol and still abusing their family - play by the book, protect yourself with red tape, don't look at the bodies involved as real people, just treat it as a case.

When it comes to child safety no one should just shrug it off, but the people who have the authority and the experience to make judgement? Those pencil-pushers involved should be arrested and charged with child abuse for what they did to this family. There is no excuse there.

[Arianddu]

Nah, you didn’t offend me at all. I appreciate everyone’s advice & I agree with you. This is exactly what I need: the female viewpoint. I’m great with my daughter when it comes to playing Barbie’s. I have a good imagination & so I can play Barbie’s all day long if I need to!!! It’s those awkward father-daughter moments I need help with.

So then it’s settled!!! No more baths together. I’ll stay on the outside of the tub. Give lots more praise & encouragement in the day-to-day things we do so she won’t feel like I’m abandoning her. Emily really likes our bath times, so I know it’s going to be quite an adjustment, but it’s something I gotta do. She doesn’t like being in the tub by herself & she hates when I get out first. She says, “Daddy, I’m gonna drown. Save me,” even though the water’s only a foot deep. I’ll just have to put less water in the tub, stay by her side & reassure her.

OMG----Listen to me rambling on. Oh well, sorry I got carried away. Thanks again everyone for all your much needed words of wisdom.

Here's a thought, if you are really worried about her being distressed at you being out of the tub while she's in it - find a dozen or so rubber duckies. Duckies have to be in the tub, naturally. Now there isn't enough room for Daddy, but that's ok, he can sit on the edge of the tub to play and have a shower later.

Oh, and as for the 'I hate you!' moment - if it happens, it's going to hurt, obviously, but you should remember - she'll say it because you mean the world to her, and for the first time, what she wants/needs is different from what the most important man in her life wants/needs. As an adult, you can understand it, as a child or teenager, that's her world radically shifting. Her way of dealing with it will be to get angry and argue - and she'll argue rather than sullenly accepting the way she might from, say, a school teacher, because she knows you will still love her and your feeling won't change because of those words. That she can say it means that she knows you love her unconditionally, that she isn't afraid of losing your love because she is so secure with it, and most importantly, that her own love is strong enough to acknowledge that she can be angry with you and not damage the relationship. It'll hurt you, honey, but it's also a sign you've been a good father. Worse, far worse, would be if she was indifferent.

[Sarah]

Not to say anything about anyones parenting, cuz God knows, we all do it different....but yes, that is very "odd" to me for a grown man to take a bath nude with his 6 year old daughter. 1st grader. I think 4 is pushing it. I think she needs to be bathed by herself with your assistance outside the tub. Im not saying you are wrong....but from the outside looking in, its just "not right", ya know? Reason being, I have memories of 1st grade, and maybe even a bit before that, and one of those memories I wouldnt want to be of me and my Dad in the tub together. I see your point of being in shorts instead, but if I were you I would save that then for the pool. You can have fun with her and laugh just the same while your kneeling down OUTSIDE the tub by her. Im only saying all this because you did ask for an honest opinion. Sorry if I offended you in anyway, I didnt mean too.

I agree, I don't remember my parents ever being in the tub WITH me (and I wouldn't want to remember that, ew). I didn't know any parents do that.

[Don]

Anyone watch "My Neighbor Totoro"? There's a scene where the dad is in the bath with his two young daughters. To Disney's credit, they didn't delete the scene when re-releasing the film to American audiences.
Not everything is so cut and dry as people make it out to be.

[strangegrey]

I don't have to justify my view that I'd do anything to self-validate my warped beliefs while claiming I'm protecting a child...including reporting an innocent parent.

I fixed your quote so that it's more in line with your beliefs.

[Deb]

Oh, and as for the 'I hate you!' moment - if it happens, it's going to hurt, obviously, but you should remember - she'll say it because you mean the world to her, and for the first time, what she wants/needs is different from what the most important man in her life wants/needs. As an adult, you can understand it, as a child or teenager, that's her world radically shifting. Her way of dealing with it will be to get angry and argue - and she'll argue rather than sullenly accepting the way she might from, say, a school teacher, because she knows you will still love her and your feeling won't change because of those words. That she can say it means that she knows you love her unconditionally, that she isn't afraid of losing your love because she is so secure with it, and most importantly, that her own love is strong enough to acknowledge that she can be angry with you and not damage the relationship. It'll hurt you, honey, but it's also a sign you've been a good father. Worse, far worse, would be if she was indifferent.

You are right on with that, Ari! Especially that part. When they feel they can let their deepest emotions, good or bad, out to you.......they are totally secure with that bond that you share.

[jrnyman28]

Yeah this is a pretty lame thing that happened. What parents don't have pix of their kids in the tub when they were babies and under 5 years old? I think parents should be able to have these types of pix without having to worry about being treated like they did something wrong. Now if a person who's not a parent of the kids made copies for him or herself, that would be a whole different deal.

What comes to mind right now is that album cover for the album "Nevermind" that Nirvana had back in the early 90's. Surprised authorities haven't deemed that child porn since it shows a naked baby with his shween.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nirvanna-Nevermind- ... .m63.l1177

WalMart (among others) demanded a censured cover...

[jrnyman28]

this is so sad. i have so many 'naked' pics of wyatt.... in the tub, running around.... i have a pic of him in the tub on my desktop of my work computer! i give wyatt a swat or pinch. i suppose i'm a bad parent . we never got hit as kids, but a swat happened and we learn. i can't tell you how many times i wish i could whop some of my students upside the head!

i hope these people sue the crap out of walmart.

...and Child "Services"...

No matter how wrong Child Services was, they should not be sued.If a precedent were set then EVERYONE who has had their children removed would sue. This would lead to the CPS to not only be distracted from actually doing their job, it would likely bankrupt them and shut them down making doing their job impossible. I think I can say with relative certainty that CPS does more good than harm.

[jrnyman28]

I think the employee did the right thing...better err on the side of caution IMO. The situation may have been handled better by the Child Protection Agency (or whatever they call it in that state); however, the agencies have their own rules they have to follow.

strangegrey, I think you're a nut!

The issue is that the employee NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THOSE PHOTOS in the first place!!

[Michigan Girl]

This footage shows some of the photos....unbelievable that someone would mistake this for child porn?!?!?

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?secti ... le-7025719

[AlteredDNA]

this is so sad. i have so many 'naked' pics of wyatt.... in the tub, running around.... i have a pic of him in the tub on my desktop of my work computer! i give wyatt a swat or pinch. i suppose i'm a bad parent . we never got hit as kids, but a swat happened and we learn. i can't tell you how many times i wish i could whop some of my students upside the head!

i hope these people sue the crap out of walmart.

...and Child "Services"...

No matter how wrong Child Services was, they should not be sued.If a precedent were set then EVERYONE who has had their children removed would sue. This would lead to the CPS to not only be distracted from actually doing their job, it would likely bankrupt them and shut them down making doing their job impossible. I think I can say with relative certainty that CPS does more good than harm.

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more with this. What justifcation was there in this case to have the children removed for a whole month? An agency with that much power SHOULD be held to the HIGHEST of standards. If they are worried about being sued, then they need to make sure they have signifcant evidence before acting.

[jrnyman28]

this is so sad. i have so many 'naked' pics of wyatt.... in the tub, running around.... i have a pic of him in the tub on my desktop of my work computer! i give wyatt a swat or pinch. i suppose i'm a bad parent . we never got hit as kids, but a swat happened and we learn. i can't tell you how many times i wish i could whop some of my students upside the head!

i hope these people sue the crap out of walmart.

...and Child "Services"...

No matter how wrong Child Services was, they should not be sued.If a precedent were set then EVERYONE who has had their children removed would sue. This would lead to the CPS to not only be distracted from actually doing their job, it would likely bankrupt them and shut them down making doing their job impossible. I think I can say with relative certainty that CPS does more good than harm.

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more with this. What justifcation was there in this case to have the children removed for a whole month? An agency with that much power SHOULD be held to the HIGHEST of standards. If they are worried about being sued, then they need to make sure they have signifcant evidence before acting.

Oh there should be repercussions, and likely they will come from the city/county/state but it is not the type of thing that a parent should gain from. That is why I don't think it should be a lawsuit...