Moderator: Andrew
conversationpc wrote:I live in Hamilton County, Indiana. Last I knew, this was the 8th wealthiest county in the entire country. That was a few years ago and it may have changed but, the fact remains, this is a pretty wealthy area overall. That being said, the biggest agency that works with the homeless and poor in this county is the Good Samaritan Network. My church partners with them. We fed and clothed literally thousands of people from the area during the Christmas season. Now I don't know if they receive any federal or state dollars but most of their budget and supplies come from churches and donations. It can be done without governmental assistance. I saw normal folks from my church out early in the morning in 20 degree weather, handing out hats, gloves, coffee, donuts, etc., to hundreds of people waiting for some kind of assistance. Many people were there overnight, getting things ready, and other shifts of people from my church came later in the day after we were there. If what I saw on that cold winter day was possible, it's surely possible during the rest of the year, when the weather is better and when people don't have the holidays to deal with and spend their money.
And then when unemployment numbers started proving to be much, much tougher and it started becoming more clear that the stimulus package hadn't worked properly, they just kept plowing ahead on health care. And this isn't a communications problem. This is a reality problem. And I think they just made some grave miscalculations and as it became more clear that they had screwed up, they just kept doubling down their bet.
And so I think, no, this is one of the biggest miscalculations that we've seen in modern political history.
Fact Finder wrote:I don't mean far right just right of center. I don't want far right religous nuts, nor far left hippie progressives, I don't want left of center nor center. Right of center. Where the smart people go!
separate_wayz wrote:An excellent analysis of how the Obama White House got into this mess, from veteran political observer Charlie Cook in the National Journal:
http://insiderinterviews.nationaljourna ... as-ira.php
The_Noble_Cause wrote:separate_wayz wrote:An excellent analysis of how the Obama White House got into this mess, from veteran political observer Charlie Cook in the National Journal:
http://insiderinterviews.nationaljourna ... as-ira.php
What mess?
Healthcare reform is on its way to being passed via reconciliation, and may even include a public option – a measure that still garners wide support, despite it being the most aggressively liberal element of all the committee bills (so much for the country moving back to the neocon fringe).
And Cook’s wrong...
An administration shouldn’t stop in its tracks on one issue to pay lip service to another, not when healthcare costs are vital to getting the country running surpluses again.
The time to do this was NOW, and Obama is right to seize the moment with both hands.
I've spent the last couple of days talking to some of the brightest Democrats in the party that are not in the White House. And it's very hard to come up with a scenario where Democrats don't lose the House. It's very hard. Are the seats there right this second? No. But we're on a trajectory on the House turning over....
.... Well when a Democratic Senate candidates loses Barney Frank's district and loses Massachusetts, I think it raises a legitimate question of what is safe -- not what's in danger, but what is safe.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Even if he is once and done, this historic victory will ensure that his name is uttered in revered tones.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:The lines between the two parties could barely be more starkly drawn.
separate_wayz wrote:"What mess?"?? .... Are you serious? I think we just have confirmation of a deepening reality problem among Democrats.
separate_wayz wrote:Cook goes on further to say that the health care debacle that you applaud is basically Obama's Iraq.
separate_wayz wrote:That would be the same revered tone used when also mentioning Jimmy Carter and Herbert Hoover. I think I just had my laugh for the day. Thank you.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:That's certainly noble work, and you should be commended for it.
But nothing you said changes the fact that if social security, medicaid/medicare et al. were repealed tommorow, your church's efforts wouldn't put a dent in the number of starving and sick masses lying in the gutter.
Offhand, would you happen to know how many seniors in Indiana rely on a fixed income of social security to survive?
And which one of your bible study group members wants to be the first to tell them to go form a breadline outside, instead of waiting for a monthly check in the mail?
conversationpc wrote:The_Noble_Cause wrote:That's certainly noble work, and you should be commended for it.
But nothing you said changes the fact that if social security, medicaid/medicare et al. were repealed tommorow, your church's efforts wouldn't put a dent in the number of starving and sick masses lying in the gutter.
Offhand, would you happen to know how many seniors in Indiana rely on a fixed income of social security to survive?
And which one of your bible study group members wants to be the first to tell them to go form a breadline outside, instead of waiting for a monthly check in the mail?
Moron...When have I said or even indicated that any of those programs should just be cut off immediately? That would be pretty stupid.
conversationpc wrote:Moron...When have I said or even indicated that any of those programs should just be cut off immediately? That would be pretty stupid.
conversationpc wrote:Speaking for myself and not the Republican party, I don't want government to help those most in need. I want government to get out of the way so that people and organizations who already want to do it can do so unencumbered of government interference.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:conversationpc wrote:Moron...When have I said or even indicated that any of those programs should just be cut off immediately? That would be pretty stupid.
When you said "government" and "government assistance", I simply took you at your word.
To me, that means entitlements - PERIOD.
Clearly, you thought your premise through even less than I gave you credit for.
Won't happen again.conversationpc wrote:Speaking for myself and not the Republican party, I don't want government to help those most in need. I want government to get out of the way so that people and organizations who already want to do it can do so unencumbered of government interference.
StocktontoMalone wrote:conversationpc wrote:The_Noble_Cause wrote:That's certainly noble work, and you should be commended for it.
But nothing you said changes the fact that if social security, medicaid/medicare et al. were repealed tommorow, your church's efforts wouldn't put a dent in the number of starving and sick masses lying in the gutter.
Offhand, would you happen to know how many seniors in Indiana rely on a fixed income of social security to survive?
And which one of your bible study group members wants to be the first to tell them to go form a breadline outside, instead of waiting for a monthly check in the mail?
Moron...When have I said or even indicated that any of those programs should just be cut off immediately? That would be pretty stupid.
Dave, that's not very christian of you...to call someone a Moron. What would Livgren say..![]()
Rasmussen Reports wrote:Strongly Approve = 22%
Strongly Disapprove = 41%
Presidential Approval Index = - 19%
This is "the lowest level of strong approval yet recorded for this President."
Rasmussen Reports wrote:"Currently, 39% of voters nationwide favor the health care plan proposed by the President and Congressional Democrats. Fifty-eight percent (58%) are opposed. Most say that Congress should wait to act until voters select new congressional representatives in November."
separate_wayz wrote:From Rasmussen Reports regarding Barack Obama's eroding popularity:Rasmussen Reports wrote:Strongly Approve = 22%
Strongly Disapprove = 41%
Presidential Approval Index = - 19%
This is "the lowest level of strong approval yet recorded for this President."
Says Rasmussen:Rasmussen Reports wrote:"Currently, 39% of voters nationwide favor the health care plan proposed by the President and Congressional Democrats. Fifty-eight percent (58%) are opposed. Most say that Congress should wait to act until voters select new congressional representatives in November."
Hmmmm ..... so, the president's 2010 strategy is (1) to continue to push for an increasingly unpopular health care bill, then (2) to announce new taxes to fund it, and then (3) to somehow assume that such an unpopular bill loaded with unpopular taxes will make Democrats more popular in November 2010.
This effort will be perhaps the most interesting confirmation and social science experiment in modern history regarding "consent of the governed". I don't think it's going to end well for the President and for congressional Democrats on November 2, 2010.
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
conversationpc wrote:The_Noble_Cause wrote:When you said "government" and "government assistance", I simply took you at your word.
To me, that means entitlements - PERIOD.
Clearly, you thought your premise through even less than I gave you credit for.
Won't happen again.
You would have to be dumber than a box of rocks to not be able to properly read or interpret what I said.
conversationpc wrote:Speaking for myself and not the Republican party, I don't want government to help those most in need. I want government to get out of the way so that people and organizations who already want to do it can do so unencumbered of government interference.
conversationpc wrote:
I live in Hamilton County, Indiana. Last I knew, this was the 8th wealthiest county in the entire country. That was a few years ago and it may have changed but, the fact remains, this is a pretty wealthy area overall. That being said, the biggest agency that works with the homeless and poor in this county is the Good Samaritan Network. My church partners with them. We fed and clothed literally thousands of people from the area during the Christmas season. Now I don't know if they receive any federal or state dollars but most of their budget and supplies come from churches and donations. It can be done without governmental assistance. I saw normal folks from my church out early in the morning in 20 degree weather, handing out hats, gloves, coffee, donuts, etc., to hundreds of people waiting for some kind of assistance. Many people were there overnight, getting things ready, and other shifts of people from my church came later in the day after we were there. If what I saw on that cold winter day was possible, it's surely possible during the rest of the year, when the weather is better and when people don't have the holidays to deal with and spend their money.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:To SW’s credit, he at least has the courage of his convictions to say that senior citizens and bums should be duking it out on the streets for the last scrap of rat meat.
Monty Python's Flying Circus wrote:
From the Dead Bishop Sketch
Well there's rat cake ... rat sorbet ... rat pudding ... or strawberry tart.
Man: Strawberry tart?!
Woman: Well it's got some rat in it.
Man: How much?
Woman: Three, rather a lot really.
Man: ... well, I'll have a slice without so much rat in it.
Fact Finder wrote:Memorex wrote:My political thoughts for the day:
Why have we gotten to a point in life where we are really disliking people for what they believe, politically? Is it because we talk more about it now, or was it always like this and I just see it more? I listen to the name calling and the bitter, bitter words because someone holds a different view politically. We seemed to have stopped talking about what we all agree on.
I don't dislike anyone because of their political views, I just dislike their political views. Big difference. I would have a beer with Bill Clinton and even The Won, Deano and TNC are invited.We wouldn't agree on much I suspect, but we might find common ground on the NFL, kind of like we did here at MR during football season. On hot chicks I'm sure we might agree, it's just that the politics not so much. That's why our system is so great the way it's set up. One man cannot impose his will on all without 535 others agreeing more or less, and those 535 like their jobs so they best listen to the boss. Us.
Politics have been fought out in far more violent ways than message board flame wars.
Fact Finder wrote:Reid: 'Men, when they're out of work, tend to become abusive'
By Michael O'Brien - 02/22/10 06:52 PM ET
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) suggested Monday that domestic violence by men has increased due to U.S. joblessness.
Reid, speaking in the midst of a Senate debate over whether to pass a $15 billion package meant to spur job creation, appeared to argue that joblessness would lead to more domestic violence.
"I met with some people while I was home dealing with domestic abuse. It has gotten out of hand," Reid said on the Senate floor. "Why? Men don't have jobs."
Memorex wrote: Like a black man is articulate and so everyone is so shocked and happy.
Fact Finder wrote:He's gonna try and jam this down the pubbies throats on Thursday...I hope they don't fall for his shit.
7 Wishes wrote:Fact Finder wrote:He's gonna try and jam this down the pubbies throats on Thursday...I hope they don't fall for his shit.
He is pretty smart to put it forth in that medium, though. It is going to force their hand. If he projects that well and convinces the American people that it will work, the GOP is in for a dogfight and could pay huge repurcussions somewhere down the line.
"No" is NOT a policy.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:7 Wishes wrote:Fact Finder wrote:He's gonna try and jam this down the pubbies throats on Thursday...I hope they don't fall for his shit.
He is pretty smart to put it forth in that medium, though. It is going to force their hand. If he projects that well and convinces the American people that it will work, the GOP is in for a dogfight and could pay huge repurcussions somewhere down the line.
"No" is NOT a policy.
Apparently Obama offered major tort reform to GOP leadership in private, and they still expressed no interest.
Should he do that on live TV, I hope the Repubs have their talking points in order.
Healthcare reform is going to happen regardless of who is in power.
Costs are rising too fast for it not to.
Should it be a Republican administration that finally gets its done, watch the bill be not very different from what the Dems are currently selling.
In fact, count on it.
AlteredDNA wrote:Source?
Saint John wrote:Memorex wrote: Like a black man is articulate and so everyone is so shocked and happy.
He's just as much white as he is black. I see you've been trained to see him solely as black, too. Now what was it that you were saying?
Memorex wrote:Saint John wrote:Memorex wrote: Like a black man is articulate and so everyone is so shocked and happy.
He's just as much white as he is black. I see you've been trained to see him solely as black, too. Now what was it that you were saying?
Yes, he is a black man. I don't have to assign white to him because in America, it is simply enough to be human.
Saint John wrote:Memorex wrote:Saint John wrote:Memorex wrote: Like a black man is articulate and so everyone is so shocked and happy.
He's just as much white as he is black. I see you've been trained to see him solely as black, too. Now what was it that you were saying?
Yes, he is a black man. I don't have to assign white to him because in America, it is simply enough to be human.
If you wanna "assign" black to him ... more power to ya.
Ehwmatt wrote:Saint John wrote:Memorex wrote:Saint John wrote:Memorex wrote: Like a black man is articulate and so everyone is so shocked and happy.
He's just as much white as he is black. I see you've been trained to see him solely as black, too. Now what was it that you were saying?
Yes, he is a black man. I don't have to assign white to him because in America, it is simply enough to be human.
If you wanna "assign" black to him ... more power to ya.
LOL, yeah, he's real black alright. The son of a mixed racial union that grows up in Hawaii then goes on to pampered ivy league schools. A real culturally black upbringing if I've ever seen one. Shit, [i]I have white friends from East Cleveland that are blacker than Obama could ever be[/i].
StocktontoMalone wrote:Ehwmatt wrote:Saint John wrote:Memorex wrote:Saint John wrote:Memorex wrote: Like a black man is articulate and so everyone is so shocked and happy.
He's just as much white as he is black. I see you've been trained to see him solely as black, too. Now what was it that you were saying?
Yes, he is a black man. I don't have to assign white to him because in America, it is simply enough to be human.
If you wanna "assign" black to him ... more power to ya.
LOL, yeah, he's real black alright. The son of a mixed racial union that grows up in Hawaii then goes on to pampered ivy league schools. A real culturally black upbringing if I've ever seen one. Shit, [i]I have white friends from East Cleveland that are blacker than Obama could ever be[/i].
Are their names Sipe, Testeverde, Kosar, Rypien, and Quinn?![]()
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The_Noble_Cause wrote:7 Wishes wrote:Fact Finder wrote:He's gonna try and jam this down the pubbies throats on Thursday...I hope they don't fall for his shit.
He is pretty smart to put it forth in that medium, though. It is going to force their hand. If he projects that well and convinces the American people that it will work, the GOP is in for a dogfight and could pay huge repurcussions somewhere down the line.
"No" is NOT a policy.
Apparently Obama offered major tort reform to GOP leadership in private, and they still expressed no interest.
Should he do that on live TV, I hope the Repubs have their talking points in order.
Healthcare reform is going to happen regardless of who is in power.
Costs are rising too fast for it not to.
Should it be a Republican administration that finally gets its done, watch the bill be not very different from what the Dems are currently selling.
In fact, count on it.
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