CHILD ABUSE!!!!

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Postby Melissa » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:48 am

conversationpc wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:I think it's so interesting that most of the men posting here don't see anything wrong with anything she did. And think it's necessary. Only one or two spoke up that she may have gone overboard, but it wasn't that bad. So far the only guy I know who has a strong stance against what she did, is my cop husband. Who sees this shit EVERYDAY, and weeds out the bullshit calls from the real calls of abuse in our city all the time. We are in the south, where it's even more prevalent. You people have blinders on! Seriously! Funny how it's mostly the mom's who have given birth and raised our babies who can't stomach this horrible shit for what it is, abuse. That's my last post. It's pointless.


I'd love to show you videos of what our daughter has done to us in the past and, like I said, she's made a lot progress since then. The stuff my wife has put up with make what was done to this child seem like a walk in the park. That doesn't make it right but there are many more children, and parents for that matter, out there that go through real abuse that leaves more than just a scar on the skin. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to knock my daughter senseless because of the things she put my wife through on almost a daily basis for the first year after we adopted her. Most folks don't understand that there are often parents who are abused also.


I do understand that, and for parents in your situation it is a whole other level that most here would never understand. As a nurse who has worked with kids who have the same your daughter has, even I can't say I understand fully what you have had to face. The situations are two completely different levels and can't be compared fairly.
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Postby Saint John » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:52 am

Michigan Girl wrote:The method she uses is torture ...anguish of body or mind.


That really doesn't matter. It's the legal issue we're talking about here, and I see no crime being committed. As a child, "anguish of body or mind" was me being sent to my room, going to the doctor for a vaccination or shot, staying in at recess because I didn't do my homework and/or not getting cotton candy at a carnival because I already had 3! Is that, too, torture?

Listen, that kid put his head back, opened his mouth and didn't even seem inconvenienced by the hot sauce. Eliminates that as any sort of abuse. The shower showed us nothing, but a yelling little fucking brat once again being inconvenienced because he was an asshole at school 3 times. Furthermore, his ability to stay seated, be questioned and answer accordingly shows me that he knows the difference between right and wrong, but simply doesn't want to follow the rules. So he had cold water sprinkled on him. Boo fucking hoo.

If this is a crime our society is destined to failure because the rights of parents are simply gone. This woman is an ugly bitch, has hair that looks like Bozo is her hairdresser, is probably not the greatest parent in the world, but she's no torturer or evil criminal. At least not from what we saw.
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Postby Melissa » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:54 am

And I'm fully aware of abuse. If you want to reach the level fighting field with me about what I know about abuse, then you'd have to hold a 7-month old baby boy in your arms and try to comfort him while he recovers from surgery to repair the damage done to his bowel system when his mother's boyfriend decided to sexually abuse him.

Yeah you people who think hurting kids is ok DO THAT, and then maybe you'll have a fair fight with me.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:57 am

Saint John wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:The method she uses is torture ...anguish of body or mind.


That really doesn't matter. It's the legal issue we're talking about here, and I see no crime being committed. As a child, "anguish of body or mind" was me being sent to my room, going to the doctor for a vaccination or shot, staying in at recess because I didn't do my homework and/or not getting cotton candy at a carnival because I already had 3! Is that, too, torture?

Listen, that kid put his head back, opened his mouth and didn't even seem inconvenienced by the hot sauce. Eliminates that as any sort of abuse. The shower showed us nothing, but a yelling little fucking brat once again being inconvenienced because he was an asshole at school 3 times. Furthermore, his ability to stay seated, be questioned and answer accordingly shows me that he knows the difference between right and wrong, but simply doesn't want to follow the rules. So he had cold water sprinkled on him. Boo fucking hoo.

If this is a crime our society is destined to failure because the rights of parents are simply gone. This woman is an ugly bitch, has hair that looks like Bozo is her hairdresser, is probably not the greatest parent in the world, but she's no torturer or evil criminal. At least not from what we saw.

That may be what you and the other we's are talking about ...
I said she uses torture as her method of punishment!!
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Postby Saint John » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:06 am

Melissa wrote:And I'm fully aware of abuse. If you want to reach the level fighting field with me about what I know about abuse, then you'd have to hold a 7-month old baby boy in your arms and try to comfort him while he recovers from surgery to repair the damage done to his bowel system when his mother's boyfriend decided to sexually abuse him.

Yeah you people who think hurting kids is ok DO THAT, and then maybe you'll have a fair fight with me.


As a mother and a nurse, you seem far too emotionally charged to render an objective verdict, Mel. And that's ok. It shows that you care and that you have seen some of humanity's more gruesome acts. But it seems like you're insinuating things about this woman from those experiences that the video and evidence don't show.
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Postby Melissa » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:09 am

Saint John wrote:
Melissa wrote:And I'm fully aware of abuse. If you want to reach the level fighting field with me about what I know about abuse, then you'd have to hold a 7-month old baby boy in your arms and try to comfort him while he recovers from surgery to repair the damage done to his bowel system when his mother's boyfriend decided to sexually abuse him.

Yeah you people who think hurting kids is ok DO THAT, and then maybe you'll have a fair fight with me.


As a mother and a nurse, you seem far too emotionally charged to render an objective verdict, Mel. And that's ok. It shows that you care and that you have seen some of humanity's more gruesome acts. But it seems like you're insinuating things about this woman from those experiences that the video and evidence don't show.


Nope, I don't agree. The video shows a woman bullying her small child into submissive fear. That's what I see.
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Postby Saint John » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:10 am

Michigan Girl wrote:I said she uses torture as her method of punishment!!


Fair enough, MG. But do you really think it's torture? Right from the dictionary, and right after your definition: "extreme anguish of body or mind; agony." Is this kid really in agony? And from what? The crying and histrionics only start when the cold water does. that's just not torture. It's being uncomfortable ... because you were an asshole! And don't bother telling me to go take a cold shower either! :lol:
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Postby Melissa » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:15 am

Saint John wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:I said she uses torture as her method of punishment!!


Fair enough, MG. But do you really think it's torture? Right from the dictionary, and right after your definition: "extreme anguish of body or mind; agony." Is this kid really in agony? And from what? The crying and histrionics only start when the cold water does. that's just not torture. It's being uncomfortable ... because you were an asshole! And don't bother telling me to go take a cold shower either! :lol:


:lol:
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Postby StevePerryHair » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:15 am

alright I cant' do it!! I can't stay.... silent... any .... longer.....

DAN!! Go read back a page or so and read the legal definition I got from my husband that is in the FL state law books for what is considered child abuse... you are WRONG! :) It's grey even for cops to determine, yet you are talking as an expert? :P
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Postby StevePerryHair » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:18 am

Here, I'll make it simple. This is STRAIGHT from the florida law book on the definition of "child abuse" in our state...

" intentional infliction of physical or mental harm to a child. "
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:20 am

StevePerryHair wrote:Here, I'll make it simple. This is STRAIGHT from the florida law book on the definition of "child abuse" in our state...

" intentional infliction of physical or mental harm to a child. "


That statement is way too broad if that's the way it really reads. That could be taken to mean that any discipline a child doesn't like is "abuse". And I guarantee you that if a lawyer hasn't already taken advantage of that, someone will and some parent will be either thrown in jail for no reason or some child will be traumatized by being taken away from parents when it wasn't really necessary.
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Postby StevePerryHair » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:24 am

conversationpc wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:Here, I'll make it simple. This is STRAIGHT from the florida law book on the definition of "child abuse" in our state...

" intentional infliction of physical or mental harm to a child. "


That statement is way too broad if that's the way it really reads. That could be taken to mean that any discipline a child doesn't like is "abuse". And I guarantee you that if a lawyer hasn't already taken advantage of that, someone will and some parent will be either thrown in jail for no reason or some child will be traumatized by being taken away from parents when it wasn't really necessary.


DUH Dave!! It IS broad... and it IS what it is. There is TONS of grey, which is why even COPS need to be educated. EVERYTHING in this country that is a "chargable offense" is based on case law!! Case law says that hitting your child on the rear end when they don't listen is NOT abuse. Case law says if I punch my child very hard in a vital organ area, such as the chest or stomach.. it IS abuse, and YES, I can go to jail. I PROMISE you this is how the law works. This is why he would have arrested her and let the courts take her. Because it was mental and physical anguish for a child THAT age. And the fact he was SO compliant worked against her. And the fact that his SISTER taped it for a TV show went against her! And now SHE is case law for future cases!! So look out people!!! No more hot sauce!! ;)
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:32 am

StevePerryHair wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:Here, I'll make it simple. This is STRAIGHT from the florida law book on the definition of "child abuse" in our state...

" intentional infliction of physical or mental harm to a child. "


That statement is way too broad if that's the way it really reads. That could be taken to mean that any discipline a child doesn't like is "abuse". And I guarantee you that if a lawyer hasn't already taken advantage of that, someone will and some parent will be either thrown in jail for no reason or some child will be traumatized by being taken away from parents when it wasn't really necessary.


DUH Dave!! It IS broad... and it IS what it is. There is TONS of grey, which is why even COPS need to be educated. EVERYTHING in this country that is a "chargable offense" is based on case law!! Case law says that hitting your child on the rear end when they don't listen is NOT abuse. Case law says if I punch my child very hard in a vital organ area, such as the chest or stomach.. it IS abuse, and YES, I can go to jail. I PROMISE you this is how the law works. This is why he would have arrested her and let the courts take her. Because it was mental and physical anguish for a child THAT age. And the fact he was SO compliant worked against her. And the fact that his SISTER taped it for a TV show went against her! And now SHE is case law for future cases!! So look out people!!! No more hot sauce!! ;)


Thanks for the rude response...I apologized to Angel for my doing that to her earlier. I'll accept yours in advance. :lol:
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Postby Saint John » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:33 am

StevePerryHair wrote:alright I cant' do it!! I can't stay.... silent... any .... longer.....

DAN!! Go read back a page or so and read the legal definition I got from my husband that is in the FL state law books for what is considered child abuse... you are WRONG! :) It's grey even for cops to determine, yet you are talking as an expert? :P
Um ... the laws in Florida don't mean shit in Alaska, and her husband is a police officer in the city where the charges were filed, Anchorage. :lol: :twisted: Furthermore:

Her son suffers from Reactive Attachment Disorder, a disorder caused by trauma or neglect in the early stages of a kid’s life. It usually involves kids who have been adopted at an older age. What happens is that children who have this have no ability to form attachments or empathize with other people. When adoptive parents try to treat children with love, these kids get anxious and push away. Normal types of discipline — time outs or taking things away from kids — don’t work.
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Postby StevePerryHair » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:33 am

conversationpc wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:Here, I'll make it simple. This is STRAIGHT from the florida law book on the definition of "child abuse" in our state...

" intentional infliction of physical or mental harm to a child. "


That statement is way too broad if that's the way it really reads. That could be taken to mean that any discipline a child doesn't like is "abuse". And I guarantee you that if a lawyer hasn't already taken advantage of that, someone will and some parent will be either thrown in jail for no reason or some child will be traumatized by being taken away from parents when it wasn't really necessary.


DUH Dave!! It IS broad... and it IS what it is. There is TONS of grey, which is why even COPS need to be educated. EVERYTHING in this country that is a "chargable offense" is based on case law!! Case law says that hitting your child on the rear end when they don't listen is NOT abuse. Case law says if I punch my child very hard in a vital organ area, such as the chest or stomach.. it IS abuse, and YES, I can go to jail. I PROMISE you this is how the law works. This is why he would have arrested her and let the courts take her. Because it was mental and physical anguish for a child THAT age. And the fact he was SO compliant worked against her. And the fact that his SISTER taped it for a TV show went against her! And now SHE is case law for future cases!! So look out people!!! No more hot sauce!! ;)


Thanks for the rude response...I apologized to Angel for my doing that to her earlier. I'll accept yours in advance. :lol:


Well, I meant duh in the nicest way possible... really I didn't intend to sound rude! Im just emotionally charged! Sorry! :lol:
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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:34 am

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Postby Saint John » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:35 am

StevePerryHair wrote:
Well, I meant duh in the nicest way possible... really I didn't intend to sound rude! Im just emotionally charged! Sorry! :lol:


Torturer!!! :lol:
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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:39 am

Saint John wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
Well, I meant duh in the nicest way possible... really I didn't intend to sound rude! Im just emotionally charged! Sorry! :lol:


Torturer!!! :lol:


:lol:
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:39 am

Saint John wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:alright I cant' do it!! I can't stay.... silent... any .... longer.....

DAN!! Go read back a page or so and read the legal definition I got from my husband that is in the FL state law books for what is considered child abuse... you are WRONG! :) It's grey even for cops to determine, yet you are talking as an expert? :P
Um ... the laws in Florida don't mean shit in Alaska, and her husband is a police officer in the city where the charges were filed, Anchorage. :lol: :twisted: Furthermore:

Her son suffers from Reactive Attachment Disorder, a disorder caused by trauma or neglect in the early stages of a kid’s life. It usually involves kids who have been adopted at an older age. What happens is that children who have this have no ability to form attachments or empathize with other people. When adoptive parents try to treat children with love, these kids get anxious and push away. Normal types of discipline — time outs or taking things away from kids — don’t work.


That's basically my experience with our daughter in a nutshell. She'll accept love from us now but previously only from me and was a hellion towards my wife for a long time.
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Postby StevePerryHair » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:39 am

Saint John wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:alright I cant' do it!! I can't stay.... silent... any .... longer.....

DAN!! Go read back a page or so and read the legal definition I got from my husband that is in the FL state law books for what is considered child abuse... you are WRONG! :) It's grey even for cops to determine, yet you are talking as an expert? :P
Um ... the laws in Florida don't mean shit in Alaska, and her husband is a police officer in the city where the charges were filed, Anchorage. :lol: :twisted: Furthermore:

Her son suffers from Reactive Attachment Disorder, a disorder caused by trauma or neglect in the early stages of a kid’s life. It usually involves kids who have been adopted at an older age. What happens is that children who have this have no ability to form attachments or empathize with other people. When adoptive parents try to treat children with love, these kids get anxious and push away. Normal types of discipline — time outs or taking things away from kids — don’t work.


Dan, DID YOU READ MY OTHER POST?? My husband teaches a course on domestic abuse, including child abuse. 40 hours. He teaches a NON-MANDATORY course to other cops through our police academy. He GIVES them case law scenarios of things to see where they think there is abuse and where there is not. He NEVER gets every cop to agree. They are all over the place just like we are today!!! He spends 40 hours teaching them, so HOPEFULLY they will understand!! He teaches cops from MANY different agencies in florida. And not every cop takes these continuing ed classes. They get some in the academy sure, but this is more thorough class he teaches. Chances are her husband was never taught very well. Do you KNOW how big state law books are? And I would be willing to BET that most states have this law on their books, or one maybe even more clear! Florida's is too vague and sucks I think!!

And yeah, I'm sure he'll do REALLY well now in his bonding when he's being treated like that. Im sure it REALLY helps his disorder.
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Postby StevePerryHair » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:42 am

Saint John wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
Well, I meant duh in the nicest way possible... really I didn't intend to sound rude! Im just emotionally charged! Sorry! :lol:


Torturer!!! :lol:


:lol:
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Postby Melissa » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:42 am

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.
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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:43 am

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Postby StevePerryHair » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:44 am

Melissa wrote:Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.


Oh.. because wives USED to be property, and this was acceptable at one time.. but now are not... but kids are still property... that's all I can guess? with the mentality many parents have? :lol:
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Postby Melissa » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:44 am

StevePerryHair wrote:And yeah, I'm sure he'll do REALLY well now in his bonding when he's being treated like that. Im sure it REALLY helps his disorder.


Exactly my thought! Yeah let's just BULLY a kid who has already suffered trauma, that'll help great! :roll:
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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:44 am

Melissa wrote:Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.


That totally different cause a spouse isnt in charge of discipline the other spouse. Well except for Steveo's wife maybe who should use some of these methods to get Steveo to behave :lol:
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Postby Saint John » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:01 am

Melissa wrote:Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.


Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.
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Postby Melissa » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:02 am

Behshad wrote:
Melissa wrote:Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.


That totally different cause a spouse isnt in charge of discipline the other spouse. Well except for Steveo's wife maybe who should use some of these methods to get Steveo to behave :lol:


Yeah but with man sauce already in there, would the hot sauce even matter? :lol:
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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:05 am

Melissa wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Melissa wrote:Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.


That totally different cause a spouse isnt in charge of discipline the other spouse. Well except for Steveo's wife maybe who should use some of these methods to get Steveo to behave :lol:


Yeah but with man sauce already in there, would the hot sauce even matter? :lol:


Youre talkin about Neal's man sauce in Steveo's mouth ? :lol:
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Postby Melissa » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:05 am

Saint John wrote:
Melissa wrote:Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.


Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.


Not true for me at all. Father/son, mother/son, father/daughter, mother/daughter, wouldn't change my view of those actions one bit.
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